Official Luthiers Forum!

Anyone have any experience with these or spindles like them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3KW-AIR-COOLE-MOTOR ... 174wt_1141

I'm kind of torn between something like that and a PC 890 for my first machine.

Would something like the link above just be a waste of money? Do you really need to spend $2k on a 2kW spindle to get something decent?

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

http://cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_route ... ences.html

1061 replies. I hope you have some time

This guy has the best reputation of anyone selling from China, and apparently backs up his products:

http://stores.ebay.com/love-happyshoppi ... =749694567

If you want someone on this side of the pond to yell at if things go wrong, then Keling has pretty decent prices

I wouldn't want to use a router due to both noise and longevity, but especially noise.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Thanks, Bob.

It look like that guys selling the same stuff as the link I posted to but it's certainly worth paying a couple more bucks in my book to get some service. So, I definitely want to be able to use 1/2" tools so that takes me up to the 3kW (!) spindle I see here which has an ER20 chuck:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-AIR-COOLE-MOTOR ... 081wt_1141

That plus 3 collets (1/2, 1/4, and 1/8) brings me to $633+$60 = $693, Plus a few bucks to install a 220 line in my basement which should be super easy, sub panel is right there.

I'm assuming that with a square body spindle like that it's just a matter of drilling some holes in a Z-plate to attach it - is that correct?

I'm also assuming that the VFD can be wired into mach for automatic speed control and on/off yes?

For a PC 890 we're at $140 for the router, + $159 for a SuperPid + $87.99 for a collet set + $60 for a mount =~ $460 (didn't include shipping on everything)

So, for $240 extra, I get a spindle with about twice the power of the router with all the noise advantages too. Do I have this right?

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

You have it right.....

Once you use a spindle, you will wonder why you ever used a router! Do not also forget, that you have complete control of your spindle speeds....from a few hundred RPM's, all the way up to thousands...this provides tremendous flexibility to machining all sorts of materials, like for example plastic, aluminum, wood etc. where you need to vary the speed of the spindle, so as to not for example melt acrylic, or plexi....

Yes, an aluminum plate is all you need to mount it to your machine....I will take some video of mine soon, and post it, to see how I have done it...currently in the middle of revising and refining my dust skirts....more to come on this also....

Obviously, everything needs to be true and square to the table, so you should take extra care when drilling holes...a good machinist's square helps, and do a search here, for folks having described their methods for squaring their machines...

-You can easily control the spindle from Mach3....you will probably need a voltage board to do that, here is what I am talking about:

http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product ... cts_id=303

Basically, by varying the voltage to control terminals on the VFD (most have these, if not all), you have complete control of the speed....read the manual for the board I linked above, and you will get a complete understanding on how this is done....very easy....basically converting pulses, to voltage levels....voila!


Best of luck....

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-CyborgCNC
http://www.cncguitar.com
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Andy, I'm running the water cooled 2.2KW with ER20 spindle with round (80MM) housing. I had gone thru several sets of bearings and speed controllers on the Bosch 1616EVS routers over the years and the VFD spindle is a welcome relief plus the additional capabilities the guys mention above.
I understand that the fan on the air cooled models makes them a little noisier but actually the cutting process itself makes the most noise when doing heavy cutting. I don't always run at max 24KRPM but like to sometimes slow the speed and feed down to run really quiet while working on something else. (Drinking coffee, for example) Torque doesn't seem to be an issue for me when running at low speed but I suppose it could be in aluminum with a larger cutter.
If you read all the posts on the CNCZONE (mentioned above) you will notice that bearing quality is an issue in these VFD spindles. (Chinese bearings, German bearings, steel bearings, ceramic bearings etc.)
For RPM control I just have the VFD box mounted next to the CNC and control on/off/rpm on the fly with it's pot. I think being able to control rpm and feed rate on the fly is a very valuable feature on any CNC. I use the feed rate override in Mach3 a lot and I'm sure the RPM can be overridden in Mach also.
For water cooling I just use a 3 gallon plastic cat litter container with a tiny submersible pump with 1/4" plastic lines to the spindle. The flow rate is very small , probably about a pint to a quart per minute, but never have been able to heat up the spindle. Never have been able to draw any where near the 10 AMP spindle rating either.
Nelson

I hate this hobby - talking to the guy I'm buying my machine off of, he's willing to hook me up with a colombo 1.5hp for just a bit more than they want for the 3kW chinese model.

I know that 3kW is a LOT more power than 1.5 but I imagine that I'll do just fine with 1.5 and, I know it's a quality product. I'm tired of being burned with cheap tools though it sounds like that supplier is decent.

Looks like my purchase is only about 2 to 3 weeks out now - way sooner than expected but I want to buy before he realizes his prices are too low!

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

So I've decided to go for a 2kW Teknomotor spindle but its cost is so high I think I need to skimp a bit on the VFD a bit.

Anyone have experience with this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 210wt_1141

Can't tell if it's single phase power or if it's controllable with Mach 3 / G540 combo

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

From all my reading on CNC Zone, you should stay away from the Chinese VFD's and go with a more reliable one. The Hitachi's are supposed to be decent for the money.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I'm running a 2.2KW with a Huanyang VFD and have had good luck with it.
I too hear that some folks have trouble with Chinese VFD's however.
I like the water cooled spindle version as it doesn't have the fan noise and it can be run at very low RPM without danger of overheating.
I use an aquarium pump in a plastic bucket with 1/4" plastic pressure and return. Requires only a very small amount of flow for cooling.

Those liquid cooled spindles can be pretty nice, as long as you get one with decent bearings. A lot of people had issues with them right out of the box, and then the manufacturer of them started putting in bearings that they claimed were from Germany. In truth, they came from a factory in China named "German". So when they say they have German bearings, they aren't lying....it's just that they don't mention the truth behind that.
Ceramic bearings are supposed to be the way to go, but its hard to get the Chinese spindles with ceramic bearings. They're pretty cryptic with their descriptions at times, and some folks have even torn apart the spindles to see what actually came in them and found them to be different than what they claimed. It can be a crap-shoot.
I would love to get one of the water cooled spindles, but all the hoses and stuff seem like they'd be a pain to deal with. Maybe not. I just have visions of hoses flying everywhere and water all over the place.


As far as the different Chinese vendors, you'll probably notice that a lot of them use the same exact pictures and descriptions etc, and you may think Salesperson #1 has a better price by $50 than the price from Salesman #2 and #3, but then Salesman #1 has a shipping cost that is $50 higher. You're getting the same thing for the same price. I have a strong hunch that all these different salespersons work for the same company...but I have no proof. Mighty suspicious though.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I can't say this is the same with spindles but I've been over there a couple of times and there are a ton of little 10' wide Mom/Pop shops selling just about everything. It's pretty common to see the same products in shop after shop. For a communist country there sure are a lot of entrepreneurs.

The Hitachi 2kW VFD's are in the $400 range...ouch! The spindle I'm getting is an air cooled Teknomotor from Italia for a very good price with the purchase of my machine. Man, for $140 it's really hard to justify the added expense of a name brand VFD in the $400+ range. Even if it only lasts a few years.., Kelling has them for $179 with a 1 year warranty.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

I've been using a Delta with my Colombo, and it works very well. Ebay prices fall somewhere in between the Chinese no-name units and the Hitachi. The Delta is very configurable and easy to use, plus it's easy to find tech support on the Internet. Might be another good option.

Dave

Andy, would you mind telling us how much the new spindle is going to cost you? I'm thinking of upgrading to a spindle myself. I'm not sure the price is affordable, but I have to look into it. Can you give us the contact info also? Thanks...

BTW, I know someone with a Delta VFD which works fine. Sounds like a good compromise. The Hitachi a friend has didn't cost him that much, and it's for a 2.2KW spindle. Maybe it's a question of the supplier. I'll verify that though. I thought it was closer to $250-300.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I'm getting a special price on the spindle because I purchased the machine from him. I'm not sure if it's O.k. to post the price in a public forum.

_________________
http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Definitely do not divulge confidential information publicly.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Help please, I am completely at my whit's end with this thing:

I just received a 2kW Huanyang VFD - From "Lappy", thanks! - to control my spindle. I've found plenty of pages on what settings should be used but for the life of me, I can't figure out how to change the settings of anything on this dang thing.

The keypad doesn't match the one in the manual (which seems pretty common) and the directions in the manual don't match the keys one page earlier.

When powered up, the display flashes 52.xx or something like that and I can change stuff to the right of the decimal with the up and down arrow keys.

By pressing PGM, I get the display to change to PD000 and the up arrow increments the value but the down arrow doesn't decrement it. Pressing PGM again takes me back to the flashing frequency display.

None of the other buttons seem to do anything.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Never mind - seems the bottom row of buttons on the keypad is busted.....bummer for me

_________________
http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Update FYI....I finally made a purchase of a 2.2KW water-cooled spindle and a Hitachi VFD. Can't wait to get the shop wired for the stuff and for everything to arrive.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."