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Is the location of the sound hole the same for a 12 fret and 14 fret guitar?

Thanks

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Depends on how many frets you want, scale length, and design.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

ok, two guitars, both dreadnoughts, both 25.4 scale, one is a 14 fret the other 12 frets.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Well, I like to put the soundhole at the bottom of the lower bout on those 12-fret models. I move the tone bars up to where the soundhole is on the 14 fret model.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Absolutely. Think of this...you are going to place the bridge in a location different than a 14 right?( Same scale but the scale is being pushed toward the butt end...you are moving your ruler by two frets) And since the bridge has to be( should be) over the "x" brace ( assuming you are x-bracing the top)and the "x" brace is usually crossing approximately an inch to 1.25" from sound hole. The sound hole is going to move. By how much is determined by the size of the box ( thus the angle of the brace), where you like your bridge to fall on the "x" brace ( will partially determine the angle of the brace)and even how wide the wings are on your bridge( you don't have to use the same old Bridge each time. Different models with different attributes is a real "Custom Shop" thing in my book ) And also the size of the Sound hole ( you don't have to make every hole the same you know) Variety is Spice.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Ok, BUT, what if the bridge stays in the same location, as does the sound hole, and what changes is the length of the body, in other words, the 12 fret dread is going to be 2 frets longer as the upper bouts reach into the neck further. This is what ive discovered by comparing martin 14 fret plans to the 12 fret template I have.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I'm not really following what you are saying. The bridge can't be in the same position if the neck is joining/meeting the body 2 frets sooner than a 14. You are in essence, pushing the bridge toward the butt end further from the heel block/neck joint. It may look the same if you change the Heel to Butt length. But from the neck joint you have pushed the bridge 2 frets toward the Butt end. I don't like working from plans other than picking up certain written dimensions because sometimes they are not accurate. Depends on who made them if they have been photo copied / enlarged whatever. One other point...let's say both the necks ( 14 and 12 ) have the same number of frets...20 for example ... you would definetly have to move your sound hole or the fingerboard would be sticking into it on the 12 fretter.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

This may help, taken from Martins site


              14 fret 12 fret
Total Length 40 1/2" 39 7/8"   
Body Length 20"      21"   
Body Width   15 5/8" 15 5/8"   
Body Depth   4 7/8"   4 7/8

The 12 fretter is 1" longer in body length than the 14fretter. that one inch, is in the upper bouts, there by making the bracing pattern, bridge and sound hole placement the same for the 12 and 14, the accommodation is made my adding length to the body, basically stretching the top of the guitar to meet the 12th fret.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

if im missing something here, please help me to understand

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Well you see agan why I don't like plans. They took what I call the "easy way out". This way nothing realy changed other than the upper bout which became longer to take up that two fret ( one inch) difference. Look I am no-one to knock Martin. But one of the things Ervin Somogyi taught me was to think about what was "wrong" with some of the design formats of many of the Mass produced makers ( as well as others). That included Martin, Taylor and others. I know I will probably get a lot of "heat" for saying this on the open forum but I believe Somogyi is right! Just because Martin or our friend Taylor does something doesn't make it better. Many times they are doing something to make there processes/assembly lines run smoother. So all you guys who are going to get mad at me for saying this...I am soooo sorry. I do appologize.
p.s. I think I finally understand what you are saying. So everything winds up sort of in the same place. So what is your concern again?

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

I suppose I should have answered your question more simply ( If only I could learn to read the words and stop trying to understand so much)by saying ..."Not on mine". My 12 frets and 14 fret models are different. Maybe someday when my factory is pumping out a 1,000 a week or whatever they will be the same.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Lance,
One more thing...This does change the long Dipole. By extending the upper bout to take up that inch ( or lengthening the whole body). It has affected the Long Dipole ( which changes how the guitar sounds from a distance). How much...I don't know...how much of this stuff is just chasing your own tail?

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"