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Well, it's been a while since they changed the formula adding plasticizers to combat crazing.
Has anyone had any experience lately with this product? Good or bad?

Thanks,

Ray

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Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

I'm curious about this stuff too. I'm using regular flake shellac this time, but I'll probably be giving the hard shellac a try on the next one, especially for the increased water resistance against hand sweat on the neck. 'course, I could just use a different finish on the neck if it doesn't work out.

Also wondering, can you mix it with other shellacs for color variation? And can you touch it up when it wears down like a regular French polish? Since it cures to be alcohol-proof, I assume the touch up would only be sitting on top of the old layer, not merged with it like usual. I wonder how visible it would be.

Bump on this one!
I am also interested to hear from anyone who has used this product.
If you take at face value the description at LMII, it should be replacing regular shellac.
They should offer a little bottle, priced accordingly, as a test kit.

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The stuff sounds like it could be a great product. LMI even has a quote from Dave Schramm. Appears to me a bit like padding lacquer which is shellac and additives dissolved in lacquer thinner.

Did some Google searches and found a lot of positive reviews of U-Beaut. Forgive the outside forum content example: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f98/great ... ual-75549/
Even found a supplier selling it in continental Europe.

There was also this however:
http://woodwithstrings.blogspot.com/200 ... itten.html
Maybe he laid it on too thick?

-J.

All I can say is that sometimes God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.

I know this is an old post but it just popped up as a linkback to our Australia forum - Woodwork Forums.

The hard shellac should work without a problem now since the plasticiser was added. If it doesn't it will be because the bottle wasn't shaken before use/decanting or stirred before use. This appears to be the problem in the case shown on the woodwithstrings.blogspot.com blog and attested to in the last entry of that particular blog. See below:

I thought I'd check the U-Beaut web site to see whether the warnings Paul mentions look like recent additions - they do.

The most telling statement, which may well explain my disappointment with it as a sprayed finish is:
"VERY IMPORTANT NOTE:
All shellac will settle out when left to sit, this shellac is no exception.
Please shake the bottle well before decanting and stir
or shake before each application to ensure an even mix."

I did decant from the bottle before thinning to a 2lb cut ready for spraying, but I don't recall shaking the bottle well or stirring before pouring off what I needed. With the benefit of hindsight, that was probably an oversight on my part, whether or not the warning appeared on my bottle.

There was no warning to shake bottle on the older bottles. I shake everything to death before I use it a naturally thought everyone else would do the same... Silly me. The "Shake bottle...." bit now appears on all bottles.

Couple of other things:
Can it be touched up? Yes it is still a shellac and as such will stick like crazy to pretty much anything including itself.
Can it be mixed with other shellacs? Yes but the hardness is greatly degraded. as the hardener is mixed to the weight of raw shellac to the brew. Adding more shellac will upset the balance of the mix. Thinning with alcohol won't hurt it as the hardner per shellac ratio is still the same it's only the alcohol content that has changed. To get a colour change I prefer to use a water dye on the timber then when thoroughly dry apply the shellac.

Using the Hard Shellac over regular or any other shellac or a sanding sealer etc could result in crazing or cracking down the track as they will most likely move at different rates.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil
U-Beaut Polishes

Can someone tell me who sells it in Europe ?? really wanna try this, but it wont ship outside the US, I am in Sweden..

I have tried it and liked it.

I was getting geared up to apply regular blond shellac to my first steel string guitar when a buddy of mine (from Oz, go figure...) introduced me to this product. After cutting it to 2lb, I applied it first to a scrap of top and compared it with the blond flake shellac. It appeared to be lighter in color (which is what I was after), but otherwise seemed to behave the same during application.

I gave the guitar to son # 2 last June; I was privileged to see the guitar again this last Christmas. There was a slight difference where his arm goes over the lower bout; the shellac hadn't warn off, but was merely not as shiny as the rest of the guitar. After I went over that area with some more U-beaut, everything looked consistent. Son # 2 uses the guitar professionally, so it does get handled pretty often.

I chose to use an different finish on the neck, so I can't say how it would behave in a 'high traffic area'. All in all, I'm pretty impressed.

Steve

RON'S
Achterland 14, 2964 LA Groot-Ammers Holland
Phone: + 31 (0) 184 60 16 77 - FAX: + 31 (0) 184 63 32 09
E-MAIL: info@rons.biz [1] _(preferred method of communication)_
WEB SITE: http://www.rons.biz [2]"


Last time I tried them it was out of stock (some time ago), but they were waiting to get some in.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Ron's is the Importer for Europe and UK Should have it in stock now as he got a heap a month or so ago but he's been selling a lot of what he stocks perty quickly thanks to trade shows he's been doing. He has to wait till he can get together an order for a couple of cubic meters of products before ordering as the freight is an absolute killer unless there is a lot of product in the order.

Haven't heard anything from him so must still be travelling alright for stock.

Anyway this link will give you a list of all his distributors in EU. Not sure if they all stock the hard shellac, most are more into our Friction Polish. http://www.ubeaut.com.au/distribs.htm#EU

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil

Thanks Colin and Neil for the info. Just ordered 2 bottles.
Neil what is the Friction Polish, tried to find it on your page but could not find it !

Is it the same routine to use as with regular shellac ? denaturated alcohol, oil etc..... ?
or do I need to put it on in a different way ?

Again thanks.

PS/ for you guys in Europe. If you want to buy this shellac, buy it from Ron at http://www.rons.biz
Ron is a great person to do business with and the fastest responder to mails I ever met sent him a mail yesterday and today he is putting together the package for me .

Lars

Lars, glad you reminded me, I've ordered 2 as well.

Neil - What can you tell me what strength is it? Just I would like to try french polish eg, 2lb cut (2lb to i gallon)? Just to give me some idea as the website says it may need dilution for some applications.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Neil,

Is there any way in the world you could convince Lee Valley to add this product to their next order?? They currently stock some of your products, however, I've been getting the polite "we'll look into it" for a while now.

Is there anywhere else in Canada we can order it from?

Ray

_________________
Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

Couple of quickies:

Mix strength and use
Hard Shellac is mixed at the rate of 25 kg bleached white shellac to 80 litres.

IE In real gallons it's a little over a 3lb cut
In US gallons it's around 2.6lb cut.

My recommendation is to cut it 50/50 with 100% denatured alcohol (ethanol, Methylated spirits, what ever it's called where you are) at worst 95% If it isn't marked as Industrial 100% or 95% don't use it. Do not use methanol,.... sorry had to say that because it has been asked of me before, way too toxic. Here in OZ if it isn't marked as 100% or 95% industrial then it could contain up to as much as 43% water and this is a waste of time as it will make the polish bloom/blush (go milky)

If French polishing use mineral oil (paraffin oil) as the lubricant, it works best with this than any other, do not use linseed oil.

Lee Valley
I have approached both Lee Valley in Canada and PSI our distributor in US and neither were interested. This is why Luthiers Mercantile were able to get ir in directly from us.

Maybe if enough people pester Lee Valley they might have a bit of a rethink but it won't happen for months or at least until they put in their next order. There may be someone else like Luthiers Merc in Canada who could bee interested in bring it in if LV aren't interested.

Big problem with getting someone to sell it is the shelf life. Like all shellacs it has a shelf life but unlike other shellacs when it's out of date it can't be cut and used as a sanding sealer. It must be thrown out. So for most distributors it is a bit of a gamble to get in a big lot, in the hope they will sell it, and very expensive to get in a small lot, as it has to be shipped by sea and the minimum charge for say 1 box, is the same as for 1 cubic metre. To Canada this could be as much as $900+ including inland freight, etc.

Hope this is of some more help

Cheers - Neil

PS Off for the next 7 days Ruby Wedding Anniversary and may not have much internet where we are going so any other responses may take some time.

Thanks for the information Neil. I've completed several guitars with this product and
have found it very nice to work with. I've just done some necks using it and so far
it's working very well, holds up nicely. I have sprayed it, cut just about as Neil
has mentioned. Few modifications to your old french polish technique are necessary,
I've used walnut oil with very good results but may try mineral oil just because of
Neil's comments.
I've used it over some very old shellac finishes with no issues going on 1 1/2 years.
I like it and will continue to use it, it's a bit pricey but a bottle goes a long way.

_________________
Bruce Herrmann
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."