Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello all,
I've been an occasional participant here these many years but I think this may be my first original topic. Like so many, my interest in lutherie began with the idea of building guitars but nearly ten years at the repair bench has left little time. I've got perhaps eight new projects in various stages of completion tucked away in boxes and another hundred used guitars I've collected that I hope to get around to fixing and selling.
I'm about ready to commit to spending regular hours at the building bench. I'm curious if anyone here at OLF has developed successful techniques for small scale production - i.e. building two or more guitars at the same time in such a manner that you are able to make a significant dent in the hours spent per instrument. How many instruments of a kind or similar have you ventured to build at once. What schedule did you follow? What would you do again and/or not do again? What helps you be your most productive during your time at the workbench?
Thanks for your thoughts and I look forward to meeting some of you at ASIA.

not of much help, just to let you know that the luthier that i´m working with is in a case similar to yours: he has so much repair work that he doesn´t get to build anything in his work time. His solution: he has no wife and kids, so he builds at night. He also doesn´t sleep very much.

cheers,
Miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

In the end I've found it fastest to go one at a time. I batch process a few things sometimes like fingerboards, rough brace stock, bindings etc, but I like to build singly. I've done batches, there's a special feeling you get knowing that you'll be scraping binding on six guitars solid, wet sanding, buffing etc. Things are much less of a chore when there's only one...

If you can make it to the GAL convention in July, John Greven is giving a seminar on tis topic. He's given them before, so there may be a DVD of the contents from a previous presentation. Check with the GAL. John builds about 50 guitars a year with very little tooling. He's quite amazing.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

I'm working on #2 and 3 together right now. Aside from having more choice of what to do on a given day, there hasn't been much advantage in it. Being able to tap and flex both tops at once is nice. They're different size and thickness and bracing layouts, but still gives a little more reference than doing one at a time. But since I do very little work with power tools, and don't have much setup work to do for most tasks, the hours of work per guitar doesn't change much.

Probably won't do it again, since having two of them hit the French polish stage at once would be bad. Need some time for my arm to grow back between them Fortunately one of the two I'm working on now is a prototype and won't be getting any finish.

In my hayday I built in groups of 4 instruments at a time. Once the flow was established I would start 4 ( glue up backs and sides, thickness, bend sides, rosettes) for one batch. The previous batch would now be in the initial assembly stage (body glue up...braces, neck block, linings, top/back attachment) while the third batch would be in the lacquer booth...the longest time element in the entire process...which also included final buff out , assembly and set up.

I utilized the adjustable body molds so I could build 4 of one model or 1 each of four models, or any combo thereof.

This allowed me to get 20 instruments a year through the shop, including down time to spend with my wife, our kid's families and the grandkids. Since this was to be a "retirement" a business it quickly became all consumming and not fun.

So, after a couple years of this I decided to scale back and regain some of the fun and increase the customer interface/involvement with their instrument build process. Now I do 4-6 a year and a "rolling assembly basis"....one in stage 1, one in Stage 2 and one in Stage 3...and find the entire process much more rewarding.
Now remember I said retirement business, which allows me a lot of leeway. For those who are doing this for a living, YOUR MILEAGE WILL VARY!

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Hank Mauel

I saw the topic and knew I had to check it out. Can't wait for Filippo and the gang to chime in

My goodness, Filippo, you must have a very high threshold for pain!

Or... the posts help you at nap time. (I don't see a "yawn" smiley face or I'd post it here)

Speaking....of...............naps................. (snore)

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Hank Mauel

Hey Yukon!
One at a time my friend.
Hide all the other projects away so you can't get sidetracked.
It is a form of self inspiration when you actually finish one instrument.
Being a part timer, I just chip away at it when ever I can. Eventually it gets finished.
I hope to see you at a meeting sometime..

Wade

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Works been slow, and the weather hasn't helped, so I am building 5 right now, 3 weiss style, one kind of Kona,
and an electric, all at different stages.
I'm a hobbiest, so not in a hurry,
but for me it's nice to do a phase (binding?), get it glued up,
then work on another phase on another box.
Plus, it's nice to shoot finish on 3 gits at once.
Finishing heck is just around the corner for me!

I love this thread. Speeding up builds is always good if you have a other jobs and kids and stuff. One thing that i've done to speed things up is have multiple tools. Like more than 1 dremel. Instead of constantly adjusting tools for various thickness' or depths, having more than one set up to one thing. Having extra pieces of purfling and binding helps sometimes too. If you need 4 pieces of binding for a guitar, and your ordering it, order 2 more or 4. One of them might be junk or break during bending, then you'll have to wait to get more. A felt tip marker calender may help keep things in order too, do a schedule on what you should be getting done. I slack off alot, like right now typing all this. I do agree alot with doing 1 guitar at a time, maybe making small parts in batch is good though, like bridges, neck blanks, fretboard shaping, neck and tail blocks. Zipping out 10 tailblocks in 2 minutes could save you 3 hours.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Here are my thoughts:

- unless you've successfully established a good flow for one instrument at a time a number of times, don't even attempt to build more than one at any one time.
- when the flow and methods are established and you know what to look for to avoid mistakes and omissions, you can start working in batches.
- working in batches can speed up things considerably, however it also means that if one mistake is made, it will be made on all the components that are part of that batch. This is one of the reasons why establishing flow on one instrument is crucially important.
- personally I think it takes the fun out of the craft and makes one feel on an assembly line. It also severely limits the changes one can make in the methods used, as at any one time a lot of parts are already processed. Evolution is not easy in a production context. Everybody's different though…
- furthermore: the few times I have built in batches, I found it too stressful, especially toward the end of the builds.
- the only exception I make is when processing parts like neck & end blocks, linings, neck blanks and so on. It would be silly not to process those in batches since the biggest time suck on those is setting up routers, saws and so on.
- I am convinced that unless almost everything is jigged up and ready to go, production is no faster than one at a time.
- personally I find the greatest satisfaction building one instrument at a time. When it is ready for finish, I start another one, and so on. One can get very efficient at this, and quite fast.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I have a very small shop, so I have never built more than one guitar of a "type" or size, at a time.
But I usually have 4 or 5 different "types" going in different stages, keeping the one that is priority on the bench and the others in the slots till the bench clears.
But like others have stated, making up rough necks in different scales, purflings and bindings, blocks, linings, really saves time down the line.

I have tried to build to my own standards and sell completed instruments, but the reality is that most customers like to commission their instrument, so I can't be rigid about that.

I think if I could build a larger shop... well that is only dreaming now.

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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008907949110

Lots of wisdom above in Laurent's post.
I'll add that the way that I work is intuitive, so it's very important that I carry through the concept and "feel" for the individual instrument that I'm working on, especially in the crucial stages of construction such as thicknessing the top, bracing, thicknessing the back and setting up the neck lift.
I will of course produce machined parts in batches i.e. bridge pre-forms, dimensioned top and back bracing stock and end blocks etc. so that they can be drawn out of my supply as needed.
Often I might have two guitars in progress at the same time but they are at entirely different stages i.e. parts selected and being completed prior to assembly or one in the solera being assembled or perhaps one in the finishing stage.

I never work on two at once at the same stage, not enough space either in my shop or in my head.

I have not built guitars in batches, but my woodworking business has been all about that for many years. My mindset for setting up a shop for batches and customizable production (oxymoron), is all about dedicated set ups for every process. In the end, I think Laurent hit upon this, when the shop is well set up, doing one at a time or a batch, the difference becomes less and less as the set up improves. Setting up tools for a process takes time, once they are set up, turning the tool on an making the cut is usually very quick. The scheduling of batches is focused on glue ups. At the end of the day, you want all your clamps to be clamping something.

Batched are stressful though, I make all my parts for my frames, sand and finish, then assemble, so if I made a mistake I don't find out until the very end, and again Laurent's wisdom, until you have it down, one at a time.

I am very excited to be attending Charles Fox's modern luthery class in June, I should see how to set up shop for production there.
Rob

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http://shastaguitar.com/
http://www.kalimbakit.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/comfyfootgr ... ature=mhee
http://www.facebook.com/robert.renick.7

This is terrific. I appreciate all the replies.
I am at heart a laborer and if the steel mills hadn't shut that's probably where I'd be. In that light, creating a production line building style may suit my need for sense of accomplishment, which in turn will help me stay the course and work hard. I do worry about the repetition of mistakes and expect that my years at the repair bench will save me from disaster. Jigs, duplicate tools, no phone in the shop, are things already on my radar.

I tried building 2 at a time and found that I was trying way to hard to create an assembly line and losing my ability to concentrate fully on each one until complete. I've done some production in multiples in the past and hated it.....so it wasn't a surprise to me that I also didn't like building more than 1 guitar at a time. I also don't create a guitar or any of my other wood projects exactly like the previous one....that keeps me open minded and available to make changes and try new things. You can't do that with 4-5 identical builds sitting on the bench.
If you want to make multiple guitars all the same...then go for it. You just may end up disliking the assembly line you created at a later date and again becoming a lover of "One at a time".

Kent

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Wood Creations by Kent A. Bailey
EXCELLENCE IN SCULPTURE, CARVING, LUTHIER, ARCHITECTURAL MILLWORK AND DESIGN

http://www.kabart.com

I think I'm the most productive when focusing on a single instrument, but having a second in the background to work on while glue dries, etc.

Good jigs make a huge difference. Jig up for as much of the process as you can. Every time I build a guitar i build another jig or two...!

Trev

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

I'm still at the stage where building jigs often takes longer than finally using them, but I must say eventually I'd like to be able to do several tasks at once, in order to cut down on what I'd call "paint watching time", or "glue drying time".

By the way where do you find that little "not worthy" guy?

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

Agreed.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

I'll try and work in batches no more than three depending on the difference between styles. I'm the type to make sure all the planning and design is done well before I start. This helps keeping things rolling. Jigs and templates help with the accuracy and speed that each step takes. Once one batch of guitars gets its binding finished I start with the preliminary work on the next three. That way I'm well into the next batch while the previous is in finishing.

Good luck

If I have two in the same stage of building I forget which one I'm working on and make mistakes by making a part or using a measurement from the wrong guitar. Of course this wouldn't happen if you were making them identical.

I am the world's most inefficient luthier, and I jealously defend my title by avoiding production methods. If I wanted to work in a factory I could do it for someone else and actually get paid.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I'm the poster-child for Adult Attention Deficit Disorder, so building in batches seems perfect for me...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I built 4 at once, once. Never again for me. I'm not a factory, and don't enjoy acting like one. I don't really have "standard" models anyway. I normally work on 2, at different stages of completion. When I take a body out of the mold, I joint, and join the top, and back and bend the sides for the next. At this time I'll work on the necks for both. I let the later one "catch up" when it's time to finish, then do my finishing in 2's. After pore filling, and the first coat of finish, I start on the next build. The only thing I do in batches if slotting fingerboards. I do ~10 at a time. I lay out pretty much all my important dimensions (soundhole, bridge, bridgeplate, bracing, cutaway ect) with the fingerboard. I don't taper (or bind) the fingerboard until I'm ready to build a guitar around it.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I only build in the winter months for RH reasons. Have built in batches from 2 to 6 and my feelings about it mirror Laurents remarks. Doing things in batchs saves time but up's stress and takes away some of the pleasure,especially as you get to the wrap up of the whole process.Short of building 1 at a time which would be the most pleasurable, I find I reach a compromise by doing a batch of 3 over one winter period.This way I find I still get pleasure from the process and also don't feel that I've wasted a winter by not doing more then 1.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!