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[long post]
I would like to ask the experienced builders here for some guidelines. I live in western Maine and would like to use "local" tonewoods for a next acoustic guitar build. It's going to be an OMish thing, so a relatively small body. I'd rather not use maple for back and sides as it seems to lack in bass response -all other things being equal- and would rather find something leaning toward rosewood, with good bass response, sparkle and overtones.
Birch, poplar, oak, ash and cherry are plentiful here (so is maple), anybody having experience building with those and the different sub-species? What can I expect in term of tone, generally speaking? I would think oak must be hard to bend as it is very splintery and of course difficult to pore-fill and finish, but it would seem to me that considering its hardness it would be a good reflective tonewood.
Any idea for the neck? Would ash work as a neck with graphite bars and truss-rod? I assume oak or cherry would be too heavy. What hard woods would be suitable for fingerboard and bridge? For the top Adirondack spruce seems obvious as it grow north of here, anybody tried fir, white cedar or even pine?
I'm open to any suggestion, if you know of any do not hesitate to send me links of builders using alternative woods, or even if there is something such as a table for weight/rigidity/stability ratios for different woods. Thanks in advance!

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Laurent I have built with white oak, maple, walnut, cherry. All nice tonewoods. Oak bends rather easily. Cherry and walnut are both excellant neck woods. Never used ash. I wouldn't bother with poplar, but I wouldn't discount maple. Sugar maple is a very good tonewood. Many a great sounding guitars have been built with maple. Another wood to consider is locust. Hard enough for fretboards and bridge blanks and good tonewood too.
Oops forgot to add sycamore to the above. Beautiful wood.Bobc38690.8603009259

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Hi Laurent,
I was going to recommend getting touch with BobC, but he beat me to it.
I have purchased a lot of wood from him and they have been all first grade quality and the prices are extremely fair.
He's the best in my book and he can give you good advice for the sound you are looking for.

Take care...
Walter

I've built quartered oak guitars. The main problem with them is selling them: they sound fine, I love the looks, and the stuff is great to work with. Make sure you use _quartered_ oak, though. At one point the suggestion came up to call it 'Norwegian Rosewood': it's sort of blond, like the people.... The tone isn't exactly 'rosewood', but it's maybe closer than soft maple or walnut or cherry.

Butternut is the local equivalent of cedro, and makes great necks, blocks and linings. You will need a truss rod, of course, but otherwise it's stable, as all memebers of the walnut tribe seem to be.

Willow is another wood that has long been used for blocks and liners. Strad liked it, so it must be OK. It's light, surprisingly tough, and glues like a champ.

I can't see why you couldn't use ash for a neck. Yeah, it's a bear to fill: looked at padauk lately?

I've often wondered about hickory as a tone wood. I've run into some that was as hard as a brick, and dense, too. Never managed to find any quartered and big enough. I've got some nice looking quartered beech that's waiting to be re-sawed.

Apple and elm would be interesting, too, although both can be cross-grained and tough to work with.

As a local N.E. type person (I live in N.H.) I'd say give cherry a shot. I haven't built with any local woods,yet, but have about 12 sets of local cherry I resawed last year and will try them in 2006. I have a wood stove and have hand split more cords of local wood than I care to think about so here is my impressions on some woods I've seen: There is plenty of maple (hard and soft), much of it figured. You can hunt down your own trees, or buy locally. Oak, as Alan said, could make a fine guitar I think, but selling may be a problem. In my expierience musician are a conservative lot when it comes to their instruments! If you go with oak I recomend white oak over red oak. Red Would be wonderfull except for it's habit of takeing up water from the air like a sponge. I can split open "dry" red oak from my covered woodpile after a single rainy day and it will be visibly soaked and for this reson is regarded as one of the most dimenionally unstable local woods. White oak is nice, much less hydroscopic but the grain is more interlocked and is heavier. The elm I've seen tends to have VERY interlocked grain and often has twists and is nearly impossible to split. I imagine it would be a difficult wood to work with. I think both cherry and birch would make a fine neck material. Wow long post can I be a "grizzled veteran" yet?    

[QUOTE=Alan Carruth] . At one point the suggestion came up to call it 'Norwegian Rosewood': it's sort of blond, like the people....
[/QUOTE]

Hey, we're not all blondes up here!

You know, I sometimes wonder who comes up with names for these things. I've heard "Norway Spruce" and "Norway Maple" and now "Norwegian Rosewood"! Sure, we got plenty of spruce, but it's just plain Picea abies, same as most of northern Europe. In fact it's a relative newcomer in this country; about 800 years ago (when all the stave churches were built for instance) it was found only in small regions in the south east. All surviving wooden buildings from the middle ages are built from pine. It has been planted and immigrated from the east ever since, and has now mostly replaced the pine all over except parts of the west coast, higher elevations and north of the arctic circle. Our spruce spread mostly from Sweden and Finland, why not call it Finish spruce?

We do have some maple, but not nearly as many other countries farther south, like Denmark, Germany and Austria to name a few.   The only maple that grows naturally here is what we call ‘platanlonn’ (Acer pseudoplatanus), but it's not very common. We have lots of birch tho! And now ash, Norwegian Rosewood! Again, except for parks you only see it in the southern part of this country. You want ash, go to Denmark.

The only reason I can think of for all this confusion is that tune by those guys from Liverpool: “...isn’t it good, Norwegian wood”!

Sorry, I can't help you with local tonewoods in the N-E...
Arnt38691.234212963

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Thank you guys for the enlightened answers! There's not much walnut
around here, but plenty of butternut. Bob, I know maple is an excellent
tonewood, and beautiful to boot, but I was under the impression that it's
used mostly on large guitars. How would you describe the tonal differences
between the woods you mentionned, especially cherry and oak? Alan, what
would you compare oak to, in terms of sound? Butternut sounds good as a
neck, wouldn't it be a little on the heavy side? There's also a tree people call
ironwood here, it's incredibly hard and heavy. Locust sounds good for bridge
and fingerboard, is it as stable as ebony or rosewood?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Laurent, I have built two Maple OMs. both with sitka tops. the firist I thined the back and sides down from my standard .095 for the back to .085 and the sides from .085 to .075 in reponce to sugestions (not here by the way) to inprove the bass reponce of maple. The other I left at my normal specs and thined the braces a bit on the bass side. both were nice sounding guitars. At the time I built them I was using pre-fabed mahogany necks not the best choice for maple guitars, but I have to say that the one that I thinned the braces on had a more complex tone than the one I thinned the back and sides on. They were built way early in my build so there were lot of things that could have improved both guitars, but all in all both were good sounding guitars.MichaelP38691.5626157407

By the way I too have a project in mind to build a local wood guitar for my area as well one day. A Mesquite and cedar. but I am still surching for a Mesquite set that is no so expensive. It is hard to find Mesquite wide enough to do a 2 pice back. I may have to do a 3 piece.MichaelP38691.5665856482

Soft maple has the tonal reputation of having little 'color' of it's own. It can sound very good, but possibly 'dry' and 'transparent'. You need to be careful playing a good maple guitar, as it won't have the sort of 'juicy' sound that covers up mistakes.

I find that cherry and walnut are much like soft maple, with, perhaps, a little more tone color.

I have yet to make a rock mpale guitar, but I imagine it would be more like a rosewood in many respects. Maybe not quite as 'rich' or 'complex' sounding.

Oak is more or less in the rosewood class. I once built 'matched' classical guitars from Brazilian and oak, and fund that there was very little difference in tone between them. I'd say that quartered oak is a forst-rate wood for steel strings, and particularly 000 and smaller ones.

Around here they often call locust 'iron wood'. It's always hard to know what people mean by that though: it's usually just the hardest wood in the area. Locust is some hard, alright.

Butternut is actually a very light and soft wood. One of my students made a Flamenco guitar with butternut back and sides. It turned out very well, with a sweeter sound than the cypress guitar he bought from Aaron Green. Butternut might even make a good top wood, it's so light.

[QUOTE=Arnt] Sorry, I can't help you with local tonewoods in the N-E...
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but to a luthier in Dublin, you're WAY North-East!

I saw that Boucher builds a guitar with Adi top, back and sides. What are
your thoughts on that? Would spruce make a good neck, or is it too
dimensionally unstable?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Michael, what are your thoughts on your maple OM/000 guitars? I'm looking
for something very close to rosewood, a hard reflective wood that enhances
bass response and overtones. I play mostly slow fingerstyle tunes and
mahogany (I have an OM-18GE that sounds really nice), while great for some
recordings, sounds a little too dry and lends itself for faster playing or
flatpicking, at least in my mind. White oak sounds like it would be the thing
to try. Anybody tried birch? I cut and split a lot of firewood as well and found
that birch really absorbs moisture, maybe not a desirable thing. Some older
Swedish Goya guitars were made with birch back & sides, maybe not the
same species as we find here, mostly white and yellow birch. Birch really
bends well when green though and makes terrific rustic furniture.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Landola of Finland makes some birch guitars. Many vintage Gibson guitars and mandolins have birch backs and sides instedad of maple. My experience with birch is that it is slightly less dense and stable than maple, otherwise they are quite similar. I have never made a birch guitar though.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Laurent I would say that birch is very much like maple. If your looking for rosewood sound then the harder denser woods like white oak, hard maple, locust would be the best choice. I think you would be pleasantly surprised with the sound of an oak guitar. As Allen said it is a very good tonewood. I just happen to have some curly oak. Locust is also called ironwood in these parts too.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Thanks everybody for all the input and knowledge you readily share! Bob, I
looked at your white oak and like everything else you sell, it looks stunning!
Do you have any idea where I can find well seasonned locust? If it's like the
ironwood we have here, trees do not seem to grow very large, but should be
OK for quatersawn fingerboard and bridge. I'm thinking a 3 piece cherry
neck could be cool, laminated with 2 thin slices of oak and locust headplate.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Laurent I used to have a lot of Black Locust 24" long firewood. Years ago they cut down 5-6 trees to make room for some new buildings at work. Alas that was before my building days and I burned it all in my wood stove. A real bear to split. Not only hard but interlocking fibers. I would load my stove with it and it would easily burn for 24 hrs. Fantastic firewood. I do have one back side set of locust but don't know where to get stock for fb or bridges. As for the neck you'll love working with cherry.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I have not built anything but cabinets with Birch I think your comments are right on as far as a tonewood. The two maple OMs I built are less complex in their tone than Rosewood. However they are very nice strumming guitars.

My personal thoughts about Native American woods that give a rosewood response is not very enlightened so I am not sure I can help there. The only one that comes to mind with any confinance is Calif. Larual other wise known as Oregon Myrtle, but that is so subjective. and is not a N-E species.

Almost forgot Persimmon wood. It may just sneak in to the NE. One of my favorite looking guitars is this persimmon built by Allan Carruth. Simple yet beautiful. Maybe Al would elaborate a bit on this beauty.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Thanks Zoot!

That was an 'R&D Special'. I wanted to try the wood, but could not be sure how it would sound (that's why I wanted to try it!). The customer wanted a guitar at something less than my list price, and didn't care about eye candy, so that's what I made. The top binding (there's no back binding), neck and rosette are curly maple. The back is four pieces of white persimmon, and the fingerboard is from the only piece I was able to get that had any dark streak. I stained the persimmon bridge. The white spruce top came from a yard tree that we salveged in '88; not much to look at, but stiff as all heck.

Persimmon is the US member of the ebony family, and was used for years to make 'wood' golf clubs. It's a lot like Macassar in properties, with, perhaps, somewhat higher damping. It's the toughest wood I've run into: I used some in my side tape tests, and it took twice as much force to split those samples as it did to spit IRW of the same thickness. I'm using it now for bridge plates.

That guitar is the one I'd take if I had to play one of those bars where they put chicken wire between the performers and the audience: it's the best 'street fighting' guitar I've seen since I bought an EKO 12-string in Naples in the early '70s. Withal, it sounds pretty darn good (if I say so myself!), which is more than I could say for that EKO. We usually think that low damping is what makes the 'rosewood' sound, but after this one I'm thinking that density can be a reasonable substitute. That's why I'd lean toward oak, rock maple, locust, or hickory.

If you're really looking for that 'rosewood' tone, and are willing to stretch your definition of 'local' a bit, try Osage Orange. It grows as far north as Central Park in NYC, and it's a drop-in replacement in acoustic properties for BRW as far as I can tell. Be prepared for a struggle, though; it's cross grained as elm, hard as a brick, and chippy, although it resists splitting well. The last O.O. guitar I built, a Small Jumbo, went to H'burg with me two years ago, and I sold it the first day. I'd had about two days to actually play the thing: probably my fastest 'spec' sale ever.
    

Al your posts are always a pleasure to read. I agree on density being a reasonable substitute for that rosewood sound. I was going to suggest osage but I didn't think it grew that far north. Besides the osage I have is from Argentnia. Just a bit too far south.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

[QUOTE=MichaelP] By the way I too have a project in mind to build a local wood guitar for my area as well one day. A Mesquite and cedar. but I am still surching for a Mesquite set that is no so expensive. It is hard to find Mesquite wide enough to do a 2 pice back. I may have to do a 3 piece.[/QUOTE]

Michael, if you find mesquite big enough for a 2 piece back in Odessa, it had to be imported. It sure wasn't grown locally.    On my recent trip to West Texas, my wife still can't believe I actually called them trees.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

[QUOTE=Arnt] In fact it's a relative newcomer in this country; about 800 years ago (when all the stave churches were built for instance) it was found only in small regions in the south east.
[/QUOTE]

When I was up that way we went to a stave church. I always thought it was THE stave church - oldest wooden building in the world or so I was told, it was built in 850AD, restored in something like 1320AD. Maybe I've got the dates mixed up, but the building was unforgetable, even for a nine year old. Anyone going up there should take the time to go have a look.

Sorry completely off topic, but Arnt made me think about it, so you can blame him.

[QUOTE=Don A] [QUOTE=MichaelP] By the way I too have a project in mind to build a local wood guitar for my area as well one day. A Mesquite and cedar. but I am still surching for a Mesquite set that is no so expensive. It is hard to find Mesquite wide enough to do a 2 pice back. I may have to do a 3 piece.[/QUOTE]

Michael, if you find mesquite big enough for a 2 piece back in Odessa, it had to be imported. It sure wasn't grown locally.    On my recent trip to West Texas, my wife still can't believe I actually called them trees. [/QUOTE]

As you well know Don, you could not resaw the mesquite here in West Texas into tooth picks, let alone guitar backs. Not every thing is bigger and better in all of Texas