Official Luthiers Forum!

Without naming names...what do you pay for a finish job on a guitar, buffed and ready for bridge and neck /set-up? And how much additional to that for Sunburst?

Michael

Why not PM Joe White & John Ferguson and ask??

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Dave
Milton, ON

Thank you for the wonderfull suggestion.

I sense a hint of sarcasm in the thank you, but as one who was tempted to ask exactly the same question after reading another recent thread about who does your finishing, I think I know why an answer might not have been volunteered.

Just tossing out the cost in a forum post does not afford the person doing the finishing to explain and perhaps even sell the processes, and cost, which are no doubt higher than someone who does not yet know, might imagine. In addition, it is the right and prerogative of the finisher to charge what he wants to, and I would think it varies somewhat depending on a host of factors that cannot be elaborated upon in a simple answer. Lastly, by reading the replies to the other thread asking who does your finishing, there seems to be a good deal of loyalty toward the two finishers mentioned, so I think the response just given (and any responses not forthcoming ; -) )was in essence meant to say, if you are really interested in getting one of these men to finish a guitar, accord them the curtesy of contacting them directly.

Realizing these things dissuaded me from asking in the other thread. If I get to the point that I might consider using their services, I will call or email them. Now someone might come along and post the cost, thus blowing my theory out the window, but I can certainly relate to the concept of not bandying about certain costs, especially for highly specialized and personal services.

IME there's alot more to it than just the quoted price. I stopped taking in outside finishing jobs because some of the guitars sent to me.....weren't ready to be finished. My hat's off to people like Joe and Tony who deal with stuff like gaps around binding, binding that's not scraped flush, rasp chatter marks in neck, and all kinds of other things that aren't included in the price. I don't know how they price this stuff, but I do know the guitars they finish look great, and they've got alot of happy clients.


I also believe that some people would consider it spamming the forum if Joe would post his prices here. Joe White is a great guy. I'm sure he'd be glad to answer any questions he has about his prices, process, ect. I don't know Tony Ferguson, or Addam Stark, but I know that both also do great finishes. I have no doubt they're great guys also. You could also contact John Hall (Bluescreek) to inquire about the person who does his finishes.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I think on another thread the amounts of $350 to $375 were mentioned but agree the only way to know is to talk to the finisher.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Yes, the fact that you're reluctant to do it does not mean it's not the best approach! Lot's of factors (proximity, backlog, prep. level, type of finish etc.). (...and you're welcome.)

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Dave
Milton, ON

Very good points made by many here, a finisher should be able to sell his services and describe the prep and buffing processes, since this is a big part of what they do. Also the prices may be negotiated based on both quantity and familiarity with the work, I am sure one such as John Mayes, who cranks out quality work regularly, would get a better price. The finisher would know what to expect when they receive a guitar, and would know that the account will be worth xyz on an annual basis. Another consideration may be that the finisher maintains old pricing with old clients, and will up the cost on new clients to help with inflation.

If a business wants to post a menu of prices, they will do so on a website. Those doing contract type work have the right to privately negotiate terms with clients, I believe this to be an unwritten rule and feel that allowing a contractor to answer their own questions on price as a common courtesy.

I also agree with the concept on other forums requesting to leave prices out the conversations as this potentially effects sponsors.
Rob

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http://shastaguitar.com/
http://www.kalimbakit.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/comfyfootgr ... ature=mhee
http://www.facebook.com/robert.renick.7

Think the posters above all pretty much capture why its not really practical or pragmatic to post quotes etc for finishing. So many factors, in terms of type of finish, how prepared the guitar is, and importantly whether its a one off or whether you will provide volume etc will play a part in negotiating a price that is appropriate, realistic for the finisher to make a living, competitive in the market etc.

Not having a go at you, as its not an unreasonable question to try and figure out what is a market rate...just they vary so much based on quality, type, and the other factors above.

On a more general point though for me finishing cost is never an an issue - will go for the best yet most appropriate - especially after the nitro I had done on my first, was not great, sunk, was not given advice on gaps etc... so consider that (IMHO) with finishing you get what you pay for, and a well built wonderful instrument can look terrible if the finish is poor - having just made a first attempt on a oil finish and counted the hours...and hours and was not totally happy with the result, you can see why a typical price range here in the UK can be anything from £250-£400 (+20% Values added Tax!), which i think is similar to the $350-$450 price you might expect to pay in the US. It's an art in itself and highly skilled, so for me at least this range represents excellent value as from what I have seen on here those finishes are exceptional.

I look at this way - why spend 100 hours + building, yet skimp on the finsih?

(NB. The DIY approach can be good, but for someone who only started building a few years ago, I have so much to learn on building, let alone setting up and learning how to do a decent finish! )

Yeah, what's wrong with saying a finish job will cost you between $xxx and $xxx depending on the guy and materials without naming names?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Because many of you named the person who does your finish on a recent post, the dots are easy to connect. I don't see an issue with a general range of prices, but that was not what was asked.

As a contractor in SF, I saw a landscaper get screwed out of his best contract because some one else did not respect a private arrangement which was working.



Hmmmm, does this kind of reply bolster the participation on this forum? Telling people to go elsewhere? Is it your family that gets fed from the sponsorship $$ on this site?

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http://shastaguitar.com/
http://www.kalimbakit.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/comfyfootgr ... ature=mhee
http://www.facebook.com/robert.renick.7

Hmmm... Perhaps I initiated the present hostilities with my carefully worded post, so I will offer a few more observations.

Comfyfoot better summed up my thinking when he said: Those doing contract type work have the right to privately negotiate terms with clients, I believe this to be an unwritten rule and feel that allowing a contractor to answer their own questions on price as a common courtesy.

Also, on some forums, like the Acoustic Guitar Forum, prices are completely taboo. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that is the way it is, and I assumed something similar might be in place here. I certainly did not slam anyone, but I offered some good points as to why calling might be more appropriate, with the admission that I was also curious. I am not so sure any of the follow up posts with a similar line of reasoning were harsh enough to be considered slamming, but I somewhat understand the motivation in defending someone, if that appeared to be the case.

In other words, if I post at MIMF asking for a link to any archived threads discussing the pricing of hammered dulcimers, I can expect the response to be no so good.

Thanks Todd. Very helpful.

Steve

Why do I have such a strong inclination to go make my first, and last post at MIMF?

It was one of the first of its kind. Has always been a great place with excellent information and some talented people in the ten or so years that I've been there. The usual bits of drama that you'll find most anywhere and more strictly moderated than many. Very little of the intentional mean spirited posts you can find on other forums that seem to perpetuate. Very little of what seems like "schadenfrude" at times on other forums, or at least stopped very quickly. The pros migrated from there to other forums including this one with most of them leaving these forums for the same reasons. Thankfully there are still a number of skilled luthiers that hang around these forums who offer insightful rather than inciteful [sic] input. Still a lot of value which more than balances out the occasional annoyance. You'll find many detractors of the MIMF, the OLF and others, but many more supporters whether admitted or not.

Sure, just a little fodder for some OLF fun.

In fact, I do recall occasionally reading (only) at MIMF a very long time ago. The content was indeed respectable, but I found the website layout unappealing, and negotiating the topics and finding key information particularly ungainly, so I stopped reading.

For anyone who's interested, I carry the complete line of Big Boy Pants. At $300 a pair, these will pay for themselves with your first finish job. (I recommend the optional Tyvek coveralls to keep your Big Boys looking spiff.)

Of course, there's a lot more to guitar building than a pair of pants. For the complete A to Z, you'll need the outfit Todd and I wear: a full lycra body suit, and matching "Luthier Man" cape. With these, you'll be able to fly jets, extrude frets, and wind your own strings. (Call for pricing.)

Eric,
Is your avatar wearing big boy pants? If so, please PM me your Paypal info, I'm in for a pair. Are the gloves included?
Thanks

This thread has confused me.... lets just say, I am not sure the spirit of this forum (which is generally so helpful, if sometimes a little lacking in humour ) is being lived up to.

It seems a simple case of two valid opinions, yet perhaps expressed in slightly more vigorours and assertive tone? And maybe that's the problem. No one is right or wrong here, just going a litttle OTT with the response IMHO.

The OP asked what is a genuine fair question. Reasons are given why it can be impractical to give actuals figures, which makes sense, as does providing a range which provides the OP with information, without maybe compromising some of the commercial issues discussed.... so what is the problem?

Finisher X who may or may not be a sponsor, obviously does fantastic work - I have not seen a bad thing said on here about any finish by any finisher - and the amount of FREE advertising they get will no doubt put a deserved smile on their faces, great work deserves praise even in a commercial setting - look after your customers with quality service at good value and the benefits are clear (and deserved) so I doubt the regular finishers on here would object to a quoted range with a list of variables... The OP was not after specifics...

PS. Todd, if only I had the space/equip/extraction to try it myself - but its also a scary moment given the time invested in the build...

I think people like Eric are just having some fun with the phrase "big boy pants". I come from the Jack of All Trades School myself. Finishing guitars has taught me a lot about building. Working on boats, welding bicycles, and blacksmithing have turned out to be useful backgrounds too. On the other hand, the luthier I've learned the most from is a man who has built 3,000 guitars, and never done finish work on any.

Seems like an innocent enough question to me and though I'd never pay to have some one else finish one of my guitars I am also just curious to know what the going rate is. And of course there is no cookie cutter approach to anything. I'd pay more to the guy that has finished 5,000 guitars then the one who is on his 50th but it's interesting to know what the range is none the less.

My finish guy takes my guitars in the white with filling staining and buffing $350 bursts are $100. I get Nitro gloss body headplate and satin necks . Necks are finished separate from the body .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Guys,

The question that was originally asked was not a big deal, and like Todd mentioned, could be answered fairly satisfactorily: Most finishes cost between $375 and $425 (dated 2011) for a basic clear, with a general $100 for a sunburst on the top of the guitar. Additional items like B&S bursts, necks, pinstriping, PRS faux binding - all will cost extra - as well as requesting a custom finish other than what that sprayer uses.

Many people on this forum have loyalty to both Tony Ferguson and Joe White, though this is not all-encompassing. Contacting either of them directly can help supplement a great deal of information. Joe White for example worked a beautiful sheet of what he expects of a guitar that is sent to him. After all, time is money and most finishers require a certain level of "fit" prior to conducting their finish. Because is it a service applied to your instrument, and not just an off-the-shelf product, nothing can replace talking with the service provider.

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www.ziegenfussguitars.com

Originally, because I'd been thinking I'm paying maybe too much for the finish I get, with the guy
I use (and like)..I thought I'd try to get a sense of the range out there. And what better place. I don't want to contact, and waste the time of the Gentlemen here, because I won't be working with them. We talk about the price of things all the time, so I meant no harm.

I appreciate the sensible replys I received.

Michael


....and I am paying too much. Thank you.