Official Luthiers Forum!

Not exactly a Guitar Building topic, but...

I'm going to have a very old guest at my home tomorrow... one of my students is bringing over a 1827 Panormo Fecit parlor guitar that he inherited from his grandmother. She must have inherited it from HER grandmother as well (or futher back)! I'm really curious to take a close look at an instrument that old!

Here's a 1826 like it:
http://www.earlyromanticguitar.com/erg/ ... ntfull.jpg

I'll try to post a pic or two tomorrow night of the little skinny fellow.

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

No less than 7 Panormo's making various instruments (violins, bows, guitars, etc.) from about 1740 on. That one is likely to be by George, or Louis. Fecit is a latin verb, meaning he made. Henley's Encyclopedia of Violin and Bowmakers says both makers very highly regarded and works well sought after. Of Louis, it is said that he "became known as the Stradivari of that instrument" (the guitar). Louis is arguably the only maker of the past to have applied his own stylistic elements to the violin bow head, an device which has otherwise remained unchanged since about 1780.

I'd say that guitar is very important.

This is the page that pic was pulled from. The previous pic is of an 1826 Panormo there that my student says is exactly like his.

http://www.earlyromanticguitar.com/erg/panormopics.htm

Yeah, I haven't read up on the topic, but I guess this was about the time, or not too long after, when the time when the guitar evolved from some precursor - the lute (?), or other instruments. (Martin started building in 1833, as most of us know).

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

Come on guys, the guitar has very deep and ancient roots way beyond CFMartin. It did not evolve from the lute either. It was the most popular instrument at court at the time of Louis XIV (his favourite instrument as well), so that's 18th century. The Spanish vihuela dates at least from the 16th century, it is hard to differentiate between the vihuela and the Renaissance guitar except the later has 5 courses (instead of 6 for the vihuela). The Baroque guitar has many iterations in Italy, France and Spain dating at least from the Renaissance, and most probably further. There is even an Egyptian bas-relief depicting a musician playing a guitar shaped string instrument (figure 8), that's Antiquity…

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

The "Panormo Fecit" guitars are usually made in Maple with a black or ebonized neck. The pegheads were made from maple and "V" joined to the shaft of the neck which was often in Spanish cedar. The tuners on these are very hard to come by so I hope your friend's example still has the originals.
The "Fecit" guitars were usually in the French style and ladder braced.
The Panormo guitars in the "Spanish Style" were usually in rosewood with a natural finish on the neck and were fan braced. These are the most valuable of the Panormpo guitars today.

Cool. I have a soft spot for Panormos. Document that guitar well!

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

A friend once bought a Rosewood Panormo 'In the Spanish style' for £25 UK. Later sold it for just short of £2,000 UK, and it clearly needed a healthy amount of restoration work.
I've made a few copies of the fan braced model and they are surprisingly full and 'modern' sounding for such a small guitar. It is clear that the Panormos employed craftsmen, so they number a lot more than one would expect from a single maker.
I expect the fecit models to sound a little different, yet still retain a more rounded tone in comparison to their contemporary ladder braced guitars.
This is a copy of the Edinburgh.

A bit of history: http://sinierderidder.free.fr/pdf/sinier%20de%20ridder%20-%20the%206%20string%20guitar.pdf

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

OK, this is one cool little guitar. Unfortunately, someone, at some time, put some 1/4" plywood in as a bridge plate. I can't get that to show up in the pics. But everything else seems to be original, except the strings, of course.

Here are a some pics. If there are particular shots that would be of interest, please let me know - I took a lot! Othewise, here are a few interesting ones.

Also, please feel free to give recommendations to my student about how to store, maintain, etc., this little jewel! (I know, I know... he just needs to sell it to someone here for $100 )

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

Coool!

I'm not sure the bridge is original...

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Build log

Here's a better pic of the bridge...

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

Doesn't look original. It also appears to be quite crude. My guess is that underneath that bridge you will see the footprint of the original.
The usual Panormo bridge has the 'exclamation' type wings, the saddle being an integral part of the bridge.

Yeah, I guess it's pretty obvious that the original bridge is NLA. This one is pretty chunky for a parlor. But the tuners are really cool... they have some pretty ornate metal work. And the knobs... would they be irory?

What should someone who owns a guitar like this do? Try to find a luthier who can replace the bridge and bridge patch? Or just leave it be?

My feeling is that it would be pretty interesting to get it back to playable condition, and yet do everything 'right', so as it keeps its value. Speaking of that, would anyone have an idea what a guitar like this would be worth (as is / or correctly restored)?

I don't think this fellow would be interested in selling, just knowing.

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Ken Mitchell
Durham, NC

Ideally it should be put back to something like it's original bridge type, sans bridge patch. All done by someone who is familiar with the original bridge types. Doesn't usually come cheap.
I think the Rance tuners were Bone.
I've seen original fan braced Panormos around £4,000 - 5,000 UK. Sometimes a lot less dependent on condition. Not sure about fecit models.

I agree. Those tuning machines are magnificent. The bridge is not original. It should be restored to original, then the whole guitar will be magnificent.

I built a fan braced copy of a Panormo. I really like it, as does everyone who plays it. I can only imagine what a 1/4" thick piece of plywood as a bridge patch, couple with that massive bridge, does to the tone.

_________________
Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

I want a set of those tuners. Wow.

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.