Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey all,

I have a guitar tech problem I'd like to pick the collective brains with.

I have an artist I'm going on tour with and we have 2 guitars that proving to be trouble makers. Here's the stipulations to factor in. The Guitars in question are 2 Gretsch G5265 Baritones. Current Musicians Friend Value $525.00. http://www.bananasmusic.com/productdetail.asp/pid_18142/productname_Gretsch-G5265-Jet-Baritone-Electric-Guitar for complete specs.

The Artist loves the scale (29.75") and tone of the pickups. He like his strings on the heavier side and for these guitars he is addicted to the D'Addario XL 155's Jerry Jones .084-.024's. Standard Baritone strings are .068-.014.

Last note: These guys are tuned up to G standard.

Anyone see what's happening yet. Yeup, they're pulling forward like jelly beans.

So I calculated tension and those strings tuned to a G is pulling a 28.3 lbs for the 29.75" scale rather then say a heavy standard set at a typical scale 22 lbs at 25.5" scale.

So a target tension of 22 lbs on the low E is desired and the tone and feel of those strings is desired as well.

My first option was to adjust the strings. Skip the .084 completely and put the .072 on the Low E. But that took the tension to something like 20.7-21.4 (I forget and am too lazy to do the math again). Anyway, the feel changed and the tone dropped to "not cool" level.

So my 2 fixes. 1. Make new necks complete with carbon fiber rods. Problem is my neck is longer then the 17" electric rods and shorter then the 22.75" rods.

2. I figured out that the 2nd fret to the Bridge is 26.5" which would place the .084 low E string at 22 lbs exactly. So How crazy is it to put a nut in the 2nd Fret slot and adjust the bridge location if needed? Problem I see is the neck would have 2 frets of flat fretboard before the headstock angle could contribute any string tension 14 degree angle. Maybe put a capo behind the nut?

What would you do?

I'm going with number 1. Number 2 would be so much more "MacGyver Cool" but a little on the tech ghetto side... Ok a lot tech ghetto!

Bari in action:

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Todd Lunneborg
http://www.tlguitars.com/
http://www.fretboardjournal.com/

Is he really tuning to 3 semitones above standard, and using long scale with extra thick strings?

Something has to give
Either go to a short scale neck
Or build new necks but a lot thicker rather than just relying on CF rods.

But he is really asking for a lot of contradictory specifications

I would make my own truss rods or remove the fret boards from the original necks and add C.F. to those.

Steve

Removing the fretboards and reinforcing the necks makes the most sense to me from the way I understand the problem. It would be hard to extend the bars into the peghead without removing the veneer but you could leave it on and fill the slots with a creative inlay. You could do a compression re-fret after if needed. Let us know what you do and how it works.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Compression fretting, it will probably take a few re-strings and fret changes before you get it right.

_________________
Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

One of my customers had an insane penchant to use piano wire on his guitars too. I had to build them strong, real strong. Of course I built him a classical and made him promise he wouldn't put steel strings on it and he did anyway... **sighs**

Is that a bolt on neck? If so I'd think it would be easier to just make a new one. At some point you just have to convince customers like that that you can only push the envelope so far. They have to settle for beefier necks or at least costly repairs and new guitars.

Good luck.

That's the trick to being a real tech, contradictory specs are part of the job and yes a third above standard.



Can't remove the fretboards. $525.00 get you Epoxied Fretboards! I heated and pried and scraped and still only got 1/16"- 1/8" under the nut.



No headplate Veneer, just paint! Plus one for the good guys!! And compression won't correct nearly 1/2" of front bow with strings, maybe it would but I have a feeling it'd not hold for a years worth of tour.

I've laminated 2 basic 5 piece quarter sawn necks. (For those that know me, yes, it was hard to stop at 5). Which should be a little better then the flatsawn splint (under the 3rd fret)/ scarf joint neck. Thinned the Fretboards to 13/64" to allow for more neck wood (3/64ths more). I also took the 1st fret off the new 30" scale fretboards making them 28.28 scale fretboards and making the guitars now a 21 fret instruments rather then 22 fret-ers. Shortening the scale helps with neck strength and helps the truss rod sit better in the desired range of the neck.

That's what I have so far.

I hate math, but I love strategy. This has been really fun.

_________________
Todd Lunneborg
http://www.tlguitars.com/
http://www.fretboardjournal.com/

Have you seen Rick Toone's neck core?
I don't know if it would help but it sure looks strong.
http://www.toone-townsend.com/neck-core.html