Official Luthiers Forum!

Then explain autistic musical savants !


with that i give

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

On the bright side, you're not cutting of fingers!

Seriously, time to take a break and refocus. Wood is replaceable body parts not so much so...

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Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

Hmmm.... I have to say that I know people who are able to pick up a skill and excel in it far easier than other people. Call it talent, or call it intellect, I'm not sure which, but I think there is definitely an innate ability that some people possess (whether or not from birth who can say?) to a greater degree in certain areas that others do not possess. You can call it "God given" or you can call it "genetic predisposition", but the facts are that these things do exist. How much of earlier experience builds into these abilities is another factor to be weighed, but still, people learn at different rates. Talent exists, as does genius. I wish I hit the genetic lottery in just one of those, but alas...not so much.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Actually, I agree. Writing down each step was a way for me to understand the process start to finish better, and forced me to slow down and concentrate on each step. That way I can take my time and work each stage to it's highest degree of excellence before moving on.
I think Ian's question had more to do with how to develop a work ethic, and how to think like a Luthier, the mindset and thought processes involved.
I, for one, am detail oriented and methodical when I build guitars, or do any type of guitar repair, maintenance, and setup.

Yup,you gotta put in the hours. There's no substitute for that. I know that seems like a lot ot you, Ian, but it's really not, once you get there. That's approximately 5 years of full time employment, which is what I did for instrument repair, I worked my full time job for 8 hours as a pahrmacy technician, spent 8 hours developing my luthier skills, went to sleep. Did that for at least 5 years, before getting a job as a guitar tech professionally, which I've been doing for about 10 years now, and have been building 20 or more hours a week since. It's when I was working as a pharmacy tech that I did what I advised in my original reply, after going through what it seems like you are encountering.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Fine, but it's Ian's mind we are concerned with here.

Two ways to go: you can study Buddhism, go to Nepal and meditate for a few years until your inner voices have quieted down, and then go on your knees to Ervin and beg to sweep his floors while remaining attuned to his vibrations, then work up to brewing his tea and eventually having the honor of organizing the kerfs from his linings. Or you can self-ordain (put your hand on a piece of rosewood, look up at the sky and yell, "I AM A LUTHIER!"), and build guitars. This is complex work. Some people are better at it than others. But everyone improves by doing it.

Also, it's better to cut when exhaling than when inhaling. Best is to cut in between the two. Thanks Padma!

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Whatever you do, keep your eyes on the blade…

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Jugglers always watch the handle !
Fwiw this is a fascinating and very satisfying hobby which keeps it fun!

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MK5acoustics.com

There are some variables here , 1 is individuality , as we are all different and learn things at different speeds . Hand Skill's , I can teach you a technique , but your hands have to be able to do it . There are no short cuts but if you want it bad enough , you can do it . The thing is , can you do it well enough.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

A NEED TO MAKE GUITARS OR OTHER
STRING INSTUMENTS.
Time to do this!
Money for tools & woods.
A dedication to learning how to make the best
instruments you can.

LUCK !
Mike

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Mike Collins

Jealous of what?

I used to sit in front of a guy in church who was super motivated....to sing. Bless his heart and his loud enthusiasm...but he was worse than terrible at it.
I also knew a guy with a 170 IQ that spent the bulk of his life addicted to drugs. He's 50 and lives with his parents.

Talent without motivation is useless.
Motivation without talent will get you much further.

Talent with motivation will make you stick out of the crowd because the two don't often combine.

The crowd gets jealous?

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

All things being equal (and they never are), commitment and hard work are more important than talent.

Steve

I started in the trade of pipe fitting 15 years ago and although I feel I do my job rather well there are always room for improvement. that improvement comes from practice and work. I started building guitars a year ago and enjoy it as a hobby. I don't see where the trades differ in development of skills (practice and work). I just enjoy my time building guitars ,focus on improvement, and remember nobody is going to fire me for screwing up the binding on a guitar. I would love the ability to build professional looking and sounding guitars ,but never do I want the pressure of building for money. For me the fun would be lost. So for now just practice and work and listen (or read) carefully what the experienced builders have to teach.

kyle

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Kyle

Be happy where you are.

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http://www.unit5woodworks.com

Frankly , this topic is getting out of hand. In order to be a so called luthier , one must juggle many hats and skills in order to be successful at their craft . Splitting logistical hairs by arguing about talent and work are mindless and self defeating. There are 2 major focuses here , for us who are not gifted , One is to develop that part of our brain that controls . precision , accuracy, commitment, logic, business skills etc i.e . the left brain part of our being. The second part we need to develop is the right brain part , our creative/intuitive/artistic/innovative part of our being. There is no shortage of creative talent, or logical smarts on this forum, as evidenced by the many who post pics, and the newcomers who are learning from others. I liken the process of luthiery as climbing a tall mountain. If we persisit we/ll get there.

Take notes, learn from your mistakes, plan your work more thoroughly than you want to, and persevere.
I would imagine you can accelerate the process by learning, on site, from some of the luthiery schools offered here and elsewhere (I've not experienced this, but from my perspective it stands to reason), but that won't ensure that you apply the discipline necessary.

I'm an amateur builder, and have made progress, albeit slowly (always more slowly than I want to) from the process, and my mistakes. Building guitars seems to me to be one of the more elusive and challenging things I've ever attempted. For me, that's a big part of the appeal. Of course, there are certainly days when I just say "enough, I need to walk away from this".

What are the specific areas where you are tripping up? Where do you have most of the trouble? Do you have a process (documented) that you follow, and make adjustments to when you find it needs tweaking? It's not as important that you share these with the group as it is that you have a clear idea of what they are yourself. Then you can methodically go about figuring out how to solve them. That's what I use this group for, and it's a priceless resource from that perspective.

There are probably hundreds of unique combinations of processes that will result in a successful guitar - and every luthier has their own unique way of doing it. I'm a big believer in learning from the tried and true, but then adapting it to "make it yours". After five years of part - time building, I think I'm about half way there (not in terms of perfection, in terms of dialing in my processes). I'll let you know when I get there....

Good luck, and above all, enjoy the ride!

As for the old "talent versus hard work" debate, well, the way I look at it, there are a lot of talented lazy people out there who haven't made much difference in the world. I spend a lot of time trying to teach my kids that the ONE differentiator in life that they can really control is how hard they work at something. I also think that talent (whatever that nebulous, elusive quality is) can be tuned and honed through some judiciously applied.......hard work.

Karma may also be at play here. I been putting off a project I'm doing for someone a while now. I decided I'll get that done before anything else.....

OMG!

Having actually been there, you nailed it Howard!

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
OR
Find me on Facebook

I started to build 4 years ago in a quest to have a better sounding guitar. Self taught with the never to be over estimated help of the library and the web (this forum in particular). First one turned out better then expected. 13 months of collecting tools, wood, and knowledge. Best lesson from the first was to execute every process with your best ability and trust the process.

The second two was built together thinking there would be synergy in building two at the same time. Researched all the process at each step again. Rebuilt all my jigs as well as rebuilt my shop. My wife should have seen that one coming. 15 months later two more done. They turned out really good which was encouraging. I made a commitment to introduce a new challenges with each new build. These two were different models and I made every wood component whereas with the first I bought the fret board and the bridge and I french polished them as well. Lesson from those two was that building is fun and I can do it well. Also the focus was different in that I was not so much reading the recipe at the same time I was cooking. There was a familiarity that I didn't have with the first one.

If there is synergy in two I thought there must be with three. Not! I started three guitars 16 months ago. Rebuilt all my jigs. The new elements are 2 cutaway and a wheat back stripe thanks to Mr. Bagdoanvich. Also employed a deflection measurement for top plate deflection. Scientific. Is that the left brain stuff? Lesson is that three is to long to wait for the finish of a guitar. I also realize that I love the process and the results. Its challenging.

How to be a Luthier? Simply:

build an instrument or two making each one better; learn as you go not only how to build a guitar but also about what it means, to you, to build a fine instrument.

I love carving necks. I love tapping on tone woods or a finished box. I love figuring out the best way to do something and achieving results with it. I love the sound of an instrument that I built with my own two hands.

Sorry for the long answer. That's my story so far. Do I consider myself a Luthier. Of course. Did you hear me say I sold my instruments. Nope! Gave them all away. Enjoy the process

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Mark Ewing
Columbus Ohio
"Trees are an important and precious thing. We should build good things with them. Building good guitars with heart are the best use for them." K. Yairi.

Im pretty sure that most aspiring luthiers can develop the skills necessary to make a decent guitar if they persevere.
What I find more elusive is finding those design and finish touches that really make a guitar a piece of art. Plantilla,wood choice,headstock, bridge design, rosette,Binding and purflings Heel shape,etc all complimentary and integrated seamlessly..
That is hard for me...and thanks to those of you who build and post pictures of such guitars.