Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi All

This might seem like a strange question, but does any one have a set regime for seating Nuts. It is one of those task that frustrates me as it always seems to take me a long time, and I don't have what I consider to be a good process for it.

I am thinking there has to be a better way

I use two different approaches. IF I am doing a vintage nut , where the slope of the headstock goes up to the fret board I am sure to first cut the nut pocket through the headstock. ALso keep the nut square to the fretboad in both cases.
Then I make sure the joining surfaces are true. I used a nut seating file for this until I got my milling machine.
   You true the mating surfaces and glue in with tite bond or elmers.
   On the new flat bottom it is the same thing. I use a small razor saw and very small chisel and then use the nut seating file to true up.
   I will do my rough shaping of the nut before it is glued in. I do the final shaping on the instument
john hall

I cut my nut slot on the table saw with a dado blade. This produces a nice flat bottom and square sides. This is one of the last steps before my necks go to finish. I was never successful at using a file as the nut slot bottoms always ended up with a radius.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Thanks I appreciatte the help.

I thought it was just me !!

It's a pain, but I usually get a pretty good fit with a chisel, mostly. And unidirectional strokes with a file. Still one of the more un-fun bits. Kind of elegant solution I've seen: razor-saw the headplate veneer to where it should be, put the nut in place, glue fingerboard with nut in place, leave it there until it's time to level the frets, then gently tap it out.

I haven't tried it, but it might work. This sort of assumes the 'nut wedged bewteen headstock veneer and fingerboard' scenario, and headstock binding would complicate things a little, too.

Russell--

Just got around to reading this post, but let me belatedly chime in that this step frustrates me as well. On the past few builds, I've tried pinning the FB in place, putting the nut in position, then pinning on the overlay. Of course, the overlay has the mating surface ground to the correct angle where it touches the nut. So everything is pinned in position. When I'm satisfied that it looks tight, the FB comes off, the nut blank pops out, and then the overlay is glued on. It's actually more trouble to describe than to do, but still has a few steps involved. Nonetheless, those steps seem worth it to me when the file doesn't have to be used. My hand just isn't steady enough.

Oh yes, if you try this: don't misplace that nut blank once it is removed!

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve...Great suggestion! delaying the overlay until last makes a lot of sense as does the pinning idea. That's what I'm doing next time. Thanks!

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I do it exactly like Steve.
Pretty painless really and you can check everything out dry , which is always nice.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Jim / Steve... I have been recently working toward this very solution. I am working to develop a system to cut my neck time in half (I hope).

Do you guys leave your nut on the flat part of the neck or the slanted part? I can't really see an advantage to doing it one way or the other (So my thought is to leave it on the flat part.)

Am I missing something.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I glue the veneer on as well as the fingerboard. Then I set up my dado blade and saw the nut slot on the flat part of the neck just touching the end of the fingerboard and saw deep enough to saw through the headstock veneer. I adjust the angle on my miter gage so the the nut slot is parallel to the end of the FB.

I used to use a Dremmel and a wedge shaped jig that mounted to the headstock. It was a pain to set up and the table saw works so much easier and faster now.Tim McKnight38707.3712268519

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Brock,
My nut sets on the flat (same surface as the fingerboard), but it wouldn't be any harder to set it on the peg head side. I do it that way to avoid having to put a 15 deg angle on the bottom of the nut.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]


Do you guys leave your nut on the flat part of the neck or the slanted part? I can't really see an advantage to doing it one way or the other (So my thought is to leave it on the flat part.)

Am I missing something.[/QUOTE]


Brock,

I do it on the flat as I like the look, you don't have to have the nut bottom at an angle other than 90degrees to get the face flush with the end of the fingerboard.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
Do you guys leave your nut on the flat part of the neck or the slanted part? I can't really see an advantage to doing it one way or the other (So my thought is to leave it on the flat part.)
[/QUOTE]

On the flat part. It's easy, and I prefer the way it looks. Also wedges in nicely between the headplate and the fingerboard.

Welp, just for the sake of completeness, I suppose, I figured I'd chime in. I build classicals, which have a slot for the nut between the headplate and the fingerboard. Even the one steel string I built, I used this same method because I think it is simply better than installing the nut on top of the headplate, the way many steel-string builders do.

I am fortunate enough to own a milling machine, and this is one of the steps in guitar building where it gets used.

I glue down my headplate and fingerboard with just a bit of excess of each protruding into the area where the nut slot will be. I leave a couple of "wings" on the neck shaft, untapered, so that I can clamp it solidly in my mill's vise. My nut slots are 0.250" wide, so I just check up a 1/4" bottom cutting end mill into the machine and cut the nut slot, insuring that it just contacts the top face of the neck shaft. The only somewhat tricky part is making sure that the endmill is precisely positioned such that it is making the cut exactly where the nut needs to be. But even this is not all that difficult.

What I like about this method is it insures that the edges of the fingerboard and headplate are exactly parallel to each other, and that they are exactly perpendicular to the bottom of the nut slot.

I also cut the nut on my mill, so I'm able to come up with a nice snug fit.

If you don't have access to a milling machine, I think that Tim's method is the best, and is essentially the same as mine, except for the use of a table saw instead of a mill. It is easier to control tolerances on a mill, though.

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

Thanks Guys

I appreciate the help, and I am glad its not just me

I am confused!!! Maybe I am just doing it wrong being a newbie.
For nuts on the flat top of the neck. I just glue my fingerboard to a
desginated line. The headstock veneer is also glued on and the space
between is for the nut. The headstock veneer is mitered to give me a square
nut. I don't carve a separate nut slot. When it is time to make the nut I just
sand it to the appropriate thickness.

Am I missing something???
Andy

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Andy,

Your method works fine as long as your headplate and fingerboard are perfectly parallel with each other. I've done it your way, too, but it seems that inevitably there is a gap of a few thousandths at one end or the other. With the method I mentioned above, I hope I didn't leave the impression that I'm actually carving a slot into the neck blank -- I don't. I just machine a slot by trimming away the slight excess of the fingerboard and headplate to locate the nut.

Best,

Micihael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]

Do you guys leave your nut on the flat part of the neck or the slanted part? I can't really see an advantage to doing it one way or the other (So my thought is to leave it on the flat part.) [/QUOTE]

Brock, I like the look of the nut sitting on the slant, so I have to grind that 15 degree angle on the underside of the nut. But that's the least of my worries, actually. I set the table on my belt / disc sander to the correct degree (whatever it ends up being--some days 15, some days 14, etc.) and grind away. It goes fast, looks clean, and again--I wish all steps were this easy.

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] Am I missing something. [/QUOTE]

Just a bit more labor.

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

I like the angled nut as well sitting on the headstock. It's a very simple job to get the angle. Put the nut in a drill vice adjust the angle of the vice to 15deg or whatever your headstock angle, and use the sanding disc or Safe-T planer in the drill press to cut the bone to the angle, 2 minute job I like the safe-T planer as it's less smelly! I find it more accurate than the belt/disc sander for setting the angle.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Brock,
I prefer the flat nut location but sometimes do the angled. I don't think it has any sonic difference. One thing I thought I should mention...Please don't use CA or over glue the nut in...It makes repairs/replacements much easier when all it takes is a quick knock of the fret hammer and the nut comes right out...in fact...I try to get a good tight fit that doesn't require any glue.
By the way...that old Paco Santiago Marin guitar...no glue on the nut whatsoever...came out with my fingers!

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

I like to put a slight taper on my nut and nut slot so that it is a wedge fit. I make the bass end of the solt about 0.010" wider than the treble end. This allows such a tight fitting nut that I don't even have to glue it in.

I started doing this on slanted nut slots on archtops that have continuous binding, but now I do it on all the guitars that I build.

[QUOTE=BarryDaniels] I like to put a slight taper on my nut and nut slot so that it is a wedge fit. I make the bass end of the solt about 0.010" wider than the treble end. This allows such a tight fitting nut that I don't even have to glue it in.

I started doing this on slanted nut slots on archtops that have continuous binding, but now I do it on all the guitars that I build.[/QUOTE]

Wow

0.010" is alot to squeeze a piece of bone, or ebony of whatever hardwood you use for a headstock veneer. I would think 0.002-0.004" would be the most that you could get away with.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson