Official Luthiers Forum!

I think it's funny that you say that, because one day, a long time ago, I was in a store called Mars Music, and I was playing the solo to Stairway To Heaven on a Telecaster, and I was thinking to myself, "This sounds just like the record" (the guitar tone, not my playing). I was surprised at the similarity, thinking Page was playing a Paul, and then I later found out he played a Telecaster on that solo, one that Jeff Beck gave to him as a present.

So yes, I think it "sounds like a Tele", when he's playing one of course.

I certainly notice the difference.

The more distortion you add, the less distinct guitar tones become though, simply because the square waves obscure the finer differences.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

The more distortion you add, the less distinct guitar tones become though, simply because the square waves obscure the finer differences.[/quote]
Yes.
Tone is in the ears of the beholder, too!

Square waves. The most blessed sound ever to grace human ears.

Certainly one of them.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

The electric 12 string part on stairway, it was a fender 12 string I believe.

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How long is that in luthyears?

its funny when people say "maple", "ebony", "rosewood", "mahogany" and pretend to know what is wood and watch them claim that somebody who is trying to explain that all those names do not mean anything is arrogant and that there is no real data...

-Somebody who is selling a guitar and who claims that its built with "mahogany" without specifiying the specie is to my eyes and most serious builders a scammer...

-Somebody who talks about wood tone using generic terms makes me laugh

BTW this is not my opinion at all, simply go and buy a good book and learn about wood species, you are very lucky you have internet... hmm lets see....

I want to buy some Ebony that builders call "pale moon" (because we all know ebony is the same thing right? ) so now lets see what hides behind the appelation....

That ebony is part of the Persimmon family....

Diospyros is a genus of about 450–500 species of dedicious and evergreen trees. The majority are native to the tropics, with only a few species extending into temperate regions. They are commonly known as ebony or persimmon trees.

and you believe that all these trees which I am about to post is exactly the same, that they all share the same density and I can do the same for your generic terms "maple", "rosewood", "mahogany" which do not mean anything at all....

Diospyros acocksii (De Winter) De Winter
Diospyros acris
Diospyros affinis Thwaites
Diospyros apeibacarpos Raddi
Diospyros armata
Diospyros attenuata Thwaites
Diospyros australis – Yellow Persimmon, Black Plum, "grey plum"
Diospyros austroafricana De Winter
Diospyros barberi
Diospyros batocana Hiern
Diospyros blancoi – Mabolo, Velvet-apple, kamagong (Philippines)
Diospyros brandisiana Kz.
Diospyros canaliculata (= D. cauliflora, D. xanthochlamys)
Diospyros candolleana
Diospyros caribaea (A.DC.) Standl.
Diospyros castanea (Craib) Fletcher
Diospyros cathayensis Steward (= D. sinensis)
Diospyros cauliflora Blume
Diospyros celebica – Makassar Ebony
Diospyros chamaethamnus – Sand Apple
Diospyros chloroxylon
Diospyros clavigera C.B.Clarke
Diospyros confertifolia
Diospyros compacta (R.Br.) Kosterm.
Diospyros consolataei
Diospyros conzattii Standl.
Diospyros crumenata Thwaites
Diospyros crassiflora Nesbitt – Gaboon Ebony
Diospyros crassinervis (Krug & Urb.) Standl.
Diospyros decandra Lour. – Gold Apple, thị (Vietnamese)
Diospyros densiflora
Diospyros dichrophylla (Gand.) De Winter
Diospyros digyna – Black Sapote, Chocolate Pudding Fruit, tzapotl (Nahuatl), zapote prieto (Spanish), "black persimmon"
Diospyros ebenum – Ceylon Ebony, India Ebony, "ebony"
Diospyros elliptica (J.R.Forst. & G.Forst.) P.S.Green
Diospyros eriantha Champ. ex Benth.
Diospyros fasciculosa
Diospyros ferra[verification needed]
Diospyros ferrea (Willd. ) Bakh.f. – Yaeyama kokutan (Japanese)

Diospyros fischeri
Diospyros geminata
Diospyros glabra (L.) De Winter
Diospyros glandulosa Lace
Diospyros glaucifolia F.P.Metcalf
Diospyros gracilipes (Madagaskar)
Diospyros grisebachii (Hiern) Standl.
Diospyros guianensis (Aubl.) Gürke
Diospyros halesioides Griseb.
Diospyros hillebrandii – ēlama, "lama" (Hawaiian)
Diospyros hispida DC.
Diospyros humilis – Queensland Ebony
Diospyros ierensis Britton
Diospyros inconstans Jacq. (= D. psidioides)
Diospyros inhacaensis F.White
Diospyros insignis Thwaites
Diospyros insularis Bakh.f – Papua Ebony
Diospyros japonica Siebold & Zucc.
Diospyros juruensis A.C.Sm.
Diospyros kaki – Japanese Persimmon, Kaki Persimmon, Asian Persimmon, kaki, shizi (Chinese)
Diospyros kirkii Hiern
Diospyros kurzii – Andaman Marblewood
Diospyros lanceifolia
Diospyros leucomelas
Diospyros littorea (R.Br.) Kosterm.
Diospyros lokohensis
Diospyros longibracteata Lecomte
Diospyros lotus – Date-plum, Caucasian Persimmon
Diospyros lycioides Desf. – Bushveld Bluebush
Diospyros lycioides ssp. guerkei (Kuntze) De Winter
Diospyros lycioides ssp. lycioides
Diospyros lycioides ssp. nitens (Harv. ex Hiern) De Winter
Diospyros lycioides ssp. sericea (Bernh.) De Winter

Diospyros mabacea – Red-fruited Ebony
Diospyros macrocalyx (= D. loureiroana)
Diospyros macrophylla Blume – ajan kelicung (Indonesian)
Diospyros major (G.Forst.) Bakh.f.
Diospyros major var. ebenus f. australiensis
Diospyros malabarica (Desr.) Kostel. – Black-and-white Ebony, Pale Moon Ebony, Gaub Tree (= D. embryopteris, D. peregrina[verification needed])
Diospyros maritima Blume
Diospyros marmorata R.N.Park. – Marblewood Ebony, "marblewood"
Diospyros melanida – Ebène marbre (French)
Diospyros melanoxylon – Coromandel Ebony, East Indian Ebony, tendu (Hindi), temburini
Diospyros mespiliformis – Jackalberry, jakkalsbessie (Afrikaans), "African Ebony"
Diospyros mindanaensis Merr. (= D. rosenbluthii)
Diospyros mollis Griff. – mặc nưa (Vietnamese), มะเกลือ (Thai)
Diospyros montana Roxb. (= D. cordifolia, D. montana var. cordifolia)
Diospyros moonii Thwaites
Diospyros morrisiana Hance
Diospyros multiflora
Diospyros mun – Mun Ebony
Diospyros natalensis (Harv.) Brenan
Diospyros natalensis ssp. natalensis
Diospyros natalensis ssp. nummularia (Brenan) F.White
Diospyros nitida Merr.
Diospyros oblongifolia (Thwaites) Kosterm.
Diospyros oldhamii Maxim. (= D. taitoensis)
Diospyros oleifera Cheng
Diospyros pallens (Thunb.) F.White
Diospyros papuana Valeton ex Bakh.f.
Diospyros pavonii
Diospyros pentamera – Myrtle Ebony, Grey Persimmon, Black Myrtle, Grey Plum
Diospyros philippinensis A.DC.
Diospyros phlebodes (A.C.Sm.) A.C.Sm.
Diospyros pilosanthera Blanco
Diospyros piscatoria Gürke
Diospyros poeppigiana
Diospyros pyrrhocarpa Miq.
Diospyros quaesita Thwaites
Diospyros rhombifolia
Diospyros ridleyi Bakh.f. (= D. crumenata auct. non Thwaites, D. pyrrhocarpa auct. non Miq., D. pyrrhocarpa var. andamanica, D. pyrrhocarpoides)
Diospyros rosei Standl.

Diospyros rotundifolia Hiern
Diospyros rubra Lecomte
Diospyros rumphii Bakh.f. (= D. macassar, D. utilis Koord & Val. (non Hemsl.))
Diospyros samoensis A.Gray
Diospyros sandwicensis – lama, "ēlama" (Hawaiian)
Diospyros sapota Roxb.
Diospyros sericea DC.
Diospyros seychellarum Seychelles
Diospyros siamang (= D. elliptifolia)
Diospyros simii (Kuntze) De Winter
Diospyros sintenisii (Krug & Urb.) Standl.
Diospyros sonorae Standl.
Diospyros subrotata
Diospyros subtruncata Hochr.
Diospyros sundaica Bakh.f. (= D. pseudoebenum)
Diospyros sylvatica Roxb.
Diospyros tessellaria Poir. – Mauritius Ebony
Diospyros texana – Texas Persimmon, Mexican Persimmon, chapote, chapote manzano, chapote prieto (Spanish), "black persimmon"
Diospyros trichophylla (= D. pruriens)
Diospyros tutcheri Dunn
Diospyros venosa Wall. ex DC. (= D. hermaphroditica)
Diospyros villosa (L.) De Winter

D. virginianain Tampa, Florida

Diospyros virginiana – American Persimmon, Eastern Persimmon, Common Persimmon, Possumwood
Diospyros vitiensis
Diospyros vitiensis var. longisepala (Gillespie) A.C.Sm. (= D. globosa)
Diospyros whyteana (Hiern) F.White
Diospyros tomentosa
Diospyros sp. 'Bamaga'
Diospyros sp. 'Mt Lewis'
Diospyros sp. 'Mt Spurgeon'



and if you want to learn more about wood density, I recommend you check out the hairsplitting videos from Ervin Somogyi especially the second video...

We are indeed so arrogant to try and explain things....

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http://hufschmidguitars.com

So I take it I have been removed from your Christmas card list....

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

word.

I have opinions based mostly as being a player and a few based
on the neck-thru guitars I've built-compared to the stock Tele's, Strats...etc.
that I own. I should also include the LP's with the bolt-on necks I guess.

The sustain and note clarity is what I noticed most and immediately.
I've no way to know if it's design or wood type or the combination that
contributed to the sound but there is a major difference to my ears.
I was glad to hear that the owners heard it too.

I'm not sure how to explain but the E, A and D strings ( at standard tuning) all
were very clear-not muddy and were fuller...each string very balanced with lows and highs. Noticeable
on the G,B and E also but not the same impact without the lower frequencies to notice...I guess.
That combined with the increased sustain just really impressed me.
I noticed this with two of the scale lengths I've used- 24.6 and 25.5.

Being new to building I feel it's best for me to just use the best materials
I feel are right and let the guitar tell me how good things went when I plug it in.

I do feel that if I were building acoustic guitars that wood choice and tonal properties
of it would be of much more importance to me....and I really don't believe that
I'll ever be able to tell what an electric guitar will sound like before I build it...but
I guess it could happen.

JMO to throw in the mix.

You funny, Chris!

It is not persimmon until you have tasted one of these fruits slightly pink and covered with a whitish coat of ??! Anyone who knows wood, knows this wood! BTW if you don't have these over the pond, I would gladly ship you one only if you give your word to record your tasting of the fruit on youtube!

Mike

Ate many of them as a kid. Probably why I like sour stuff so such.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I love those things! My next-door neighbor has a tree on our property line. Last year we got about 20 lbs of them but this year his wife made him pick them early just so we couldn't get them! ich! I'll be glad when they sell the house. Maybe the new owner won't like them!

Any of you guys ever eat them when they had the white coating on them before they really began to get ripe? The sugar content in these just before they begin to too ripe is off the chart!

They make a really nice cookie as well, though taste much like pumpkin with all the spices!

I just wanted to introduce hufschmid to a true southern red neck razzin, no ill intended.

Mike

I love those things! My next-door neighbor has a tree on our property line. Last year we got about 20 lbs of them but this year his wife made him pick them early just so we couldn't get them! ich! I'll be glad when they sell the house. Maybe the new owner won't like them![/quote]

cb, maybe your friend picked them with the white coating on them.....I can assure you if they did, they will never pick them early again! If anyone what to know what it is like to eat....no wait, bite one of these before they are ripe, go find some alum. Moisten the spoon, stick it in the alum then proceed to insert into mouth and enjoy! Take a close look at the photo and you will see a fine white hue on the outside of the orange skin. This one is not ripe. Easiest way to tell if they are ripe is the little crown on the top of the fruit. Green=puckered lips for a while, brown, or turning brown and no white coating, good to go!

Mike

This thread has really gotten fruity.

Soon to go nutty, lol.
Well, it is getting close to Christmas. Fruitcake, anyone?

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Man, this thread got spicy. Anyway, everybody knows difference between a LP tone and a Fender tone is in the 3 X 3 headstock (good) vs. the 6-in-line headstock (bad). Someday I'm going to build a guitar out of stabilized cow poop just to prove the point!

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David Morris

Just how is that done exactly? Compression and heat? Resin impregnation under vacuum?
Tell us!

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Well, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

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David Morris

OH, PUHLEEZE!!
Tell me, tell me, tell me.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I'll give you a hint. It involves a lot of bulls%!#.

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David Morris

I've been accused of being a master bulls%!#er.
However, no one ever trotted out definitive proof.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Chris you are from the midwest and some of the largest feed lots in the world.....you of all people should know what a stable cow pie is. If it jiggles, it isn't stable!

Mike