Official Luthiers Forum!

This was posted in a different section at first but I figured it needed to be in the more specific forum so I have moved it here.

Hello Everybody,

First off, thanks for taking the time to share your trials, tribulations, and guitar building knowledge on this board as I am sure it will become an indispensable resource for me on my first build. A little about me - I'm Jerry and I am from Texas. I like to make sure I'm 100% sure of what I am going to do before embarking on any project and I want this one to be no different. It has always been a dream of mine to build my own guitar so I don't want to be disappointed with my first one (although there will be more from what I understand.)

I am in the "designing" phase right now and would like to tell you guys what my plans are, then I will follow up with a few questions and hopefully a few of you can shed some light on a few of the answers for me.

I am wanting to build a 7 string. Hopefully this isn't too ambitious for my first build. Specs are as follows.

Scale length: 26"
Frets: 24
Body shape: rg style with a bit of a carved top and a different neck joint contour.
Neck to body joint: set neck
Bridge: hipshot .125
Neck angle: 0 if at all possible
Materials: maple body w figured walnut top. 5 piece neck with two strips of walnut and 3 strips of maple. Possibly some very thin ebony strips on either side of the walnut.

I still need to figure a few more things but I have a few questions regarding what I have so far whose answers would really help me sketch out a full scale plan.

1) scale length. I understand scale length as basically the length of the string on the guitar meaning length from edge of the nut to the point where the string crosses the saddle. If this is correct should the bridge be mounted so that the 26 inches are right at the middle point of or the two extremes of the adjustment length of the saddle? For example if the saddle at it's rearmost position is 0 and it's forward most position is 10, should it be mounted so that the string crosses in the middle at value 5 or is there another way to do it? Any clarification would help.

2) frets. I want 24 full frets. I understand there is almost always overhang after the last fret. Is this length just for aesthetic purposes or does it serve a functional purpose? Is it recommended to be no less than a certain length?

3. Neck angle. Since I am requiring 0 neck angle and using the hipshot bridge is it recommended to have the fretboard flat with the top laminate or is it better to have the neck pocket a bit shallower so the fretboard is just a bit higher than the surface of the body? The bridge has it's minimum string level at .30" above the body and maximum at .46" above the body.

Sorry if some of these are stupid questions. I have read a lot about the process but just need a little clarification/guidance. I'd rather mess up on the actual work than have a design flaw that would make this guitar unplayable no matter how good the craftwork is.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much If you've made it this far.

You need more info.
If you own a guitar, just looking at it can answer a bunch of questions. For me, the top of the body is on the same plane as the glue joint between the fingerboard and neck. Bolt-ons are typically .75" thick w/out fretboard (so I route my neck pocket that deep).
If you own a guitar, and you know its scale length, get a long ruler and measure from the inside of the nut to where the saddles are. Measure to where the bridge screws are. This can be quite revealing.
Ebony veneer can be replaced with "fiber veneer."
Fret overhang is to keep the fretboard from splitting when you press in that fret but has cosmetic functions too.
guitarbuildingtemplates.com could help.
Learn CAD! Been the best teacher for me. I make actual size templates, print @ Kinkos, spray my body blank with super 66 adhesive, stick the plan on there and start cutting.
Also browsing other folks' builds on here will teach you so much. First build is very expensive. You just can't appreciate the amount of tools needed... Find a local cabinet shop, see if you can hire them to make specific cuts for you til you can fathom the scope of a build. Routers, bits, drills, bits, this saw, that saw, fret saw, fret file, nut saw, nut file, tuning reamers, QUALITY double-sided tape - IPG is seriously awesome.. Also, 75% of guitar-building is building jigs, fixtures and templates to help you build the guitar. It's really a thinking-man's sport.
Also, I probably wouldn't invest too much in a first build. Run to Lowes, get some oak or poplar and make a fullsize mock of the guitar you want. Super cheap, practice tummy contours, forearm contours, learn how to glue, cut, learn to hate humidity.. It will explain so much with a small investment.

Steal some info from here:
http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-UV777
acknowledge that fretboard width tapers. Note the difference between nut width, fretboard width and string spread.

Good luck.

edit: google's sketchup cad program is free, easy to learn (has great tutorial videos)

Thanks for the response. At the moment I have access to a table saw, planer, various handheld electric saws, sanding devices, band saw, router, etc. I'd like to find a drill press as well. Thanks for the info and the advice about the full size mock up is great. Definitely will be doing this first. I have a bunch of books to kind of guide me through the process as well. I'm sure I'm going to have to get my hands on some job specific tools as well, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Good starting place - this will answer many of your questions

http://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Own-Ele ... 0953104907

1 - As far as bridge location, you can copy another guitar, do the math or use the StewMac fret calculator (it also locates the bridge). There was a pretty good mathematical discussion in American Lutherie a year or so ago and he was working with weird scales and string guages - I could find reference if you would like.

Fwiw - I built an acoustic 12 string with a 26.5 scale length - it is usually tuned C to C (or sometimes lower). You might want to spend some time with a string tension calculator and your desired tuning before you start calculating compensation.

2 - Frets are hammered/pressed into slots. You need a little bit of wood beyond the last fret to form the slot (or I guess you could glue it to the end of the board). I tend to cut my boards off at what would the next calculated fret position (25th) but all you need is enough wood to make the slot.

3 - Do a full scale layout of your geometry using the dimensions of all of your components (fret thickness, bridge/saddle height, pup height, and desired action) - that will help you determine you neck angle. I fine tune the angle as I am setting the neck (but then I'm primarily an acoustic builder)

Post pictures and good luck

I'll add a second response. A drill press is very handy, a band saw is almost a must. I don't use a table saw very much. Routers and templates are totally necessary - spend enough time making the right templates for your neck pocket, pickup cavites, internal controls, anything else. I use Autocad to draw all this stuff, transfer it to MDF or clear plastic, cut out the templates with bandsaw and router. A router table is handy and so is a pin router if you are going to bind. If you are going to do inlay, a Dremel and plunge base for it.

You'll end up buying a bunch of lutherie tools - fret and nut files, various special router and drill bits, probably a radiused block for making your fretboard. You can buy pre slotted f/b's but maybe not 26 inch.

This is a different configuration but basically the same steps you'll be going thru with your build - it might help
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/sho ... e-Les-Paul

Looks like some of the other guys have done pretty well with the first two questions. Let me add a comment or two on three:

If you keep your fretboard flat on the top, with no angle in the neck, you may find that you have to “sink” your bridge some to get string clearance on the frets. That can be tough to pull off and make it look right. It is, generally, easier to deal with a bridge that sits too low than one that sits too high. When calculating your needed bridge saddle height, don’t forget that frets sit proud of the fingerboard, and you will need a little margin for the strings to clear the frets.

I suspect you will want to have the fingerboard raised off of the body some, which presents some issues if you are using a traditional straight tenon. You will need to somehow fill the space that will be left between the bottom of the fretboard and the top of the guitar. I do my no-angle neck guitars this way and fill the space with a “shim” of wood made from the same material as the guitar top. Properly fitted, glued in, and finished, it looks very good. Here’s a look at one of my double cut “tele” style guitars with a straight neck and the shim under the fretboard.




There are no stupid questions. We will help you with the clarification and guidance. As for design flaws, sometimes they are inevitable. It is sometimes an art in itself to find “workarounds” and solutions when you get into a build and find that there are things happening that you just did not plan for.

Welcome to the forums! I love watching all the new people show up here with the same enthusiasm as I did when I started my first guitar (About a year and a half ago) It's also cool to see some of these "long-timers" throw in the tips as well(I have learned ALLOT from these guys!).

Building your first guitar is not about the tools, supplies or know-how IMO - it's more about research, experimentation, overcoming problems and surrounding yourself with SEVERAL builders and sift through their (Sometimes bull-headed) ways and finding the way that works BEST for you..

Overcoming the hurdles will take perseverance, and THAT will be the driver that will take you to the beginning/end/beginning of your journies. For the sake of not getting TOO Zen on you, I'll give you a cool link that you may find handy in 33 days from today:
http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/NeckAngle/index.php

Good luck and post as many pics as possible - we love watching these ambitious new builds!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Welcome!
Freemans # 3 advice.
You can work out problems before they happen,
and it really gets da brain thinking.
Go out and start making sawdust!
Oh, it helps to have all your hardware in your hand to measure/layout everything.

Hi again guys,

Thank you so much for all of the answers. They really helped me out a ton. I will be drafting my guitar up by hand the next few weeks and hopefully making my templates as soon as possible. I changed the body style a bit from the rg but y'all will have to wait to see that. It's a bit more modern looking. As far as the headstock goes, I am trying to design a fitting headstock. Right now i've got a few ideas but I'm picky as hell w/ headstocks. I'm going to be trying to cad it up as well so I can show you guys. I have a few more questions though. I don't have a set neck lying around, but how far is the neck usually joined in at the body, and how deep is the tennon usually?

Hehehe - it would help if ya looked at the links people are giving you - they have the answers sometimes to your *new* questions

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

it says the image was edited.. but you get the idear. lots of folks like to have the tenon extend into and beneath the cavity.

Ah, yes, classic picture. Not one of those joints demonstrates an acceptable level of joinery to me.

How about this one?
So tight it didn't really need glue!

Very cool Alan - I just had a similar "fitting" procedure done with the SW -it is actually too tight - not sure if there's room for glue now!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Center line is a bit off but this is tge rough body shape. I need to figure out how I want the heel to be as this will be a set neck join. Thoughts?