Official Luthiers Forum!

A customer brought in a Les Paul clone for set up and some repairs.Th guitar is equipped with a Bigsby and a roller bridge. Both installed by the owner. The install looks good and the unit fits the guitar well. The issue is the trem does not always return to pitch after use. The owner has taken it apart and "greased" it which did not help. Looks like he used axle grease and I think that it is too sticky for this application and may actually be making the problem worse. He says the issue has been there since the unit was first installed, before the lube job. I intend to disassemble and clean all the parts and lube with something much lighter like the silicone grease I use to lube truss rods. I have lots of experience with standard trems, but not so much with bigsby's. What should I look for that may be causing this issue? Thanks.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I don't have much experience with trems,
but I did have a git with a Bigsby,
and well,
I think the old trem systems suck.
That's why they have better modern ones.
One thing that helps is,
after using the trem doing a dive,
or whatever, is to "splink" the trem arm.
You know, pluck the trem arm up like string.
Good luck!

I put a Bigs on my last build, and it stays in tune very well and always returns to pitch. There's no comparison to the Strat-style trem units.

That said, I would, as you are suggesting, start by disassembling the thing and cleaning off all the grease. A little light oil on the moving parts should be all that is necessary. I doubt it is the greese causing the problem, however, as it appears to have been loosing pitch from the git go.

First, make sure it it strung up correctly. Might sound silly, but I have seen people string them incorrectly. Beyond that, my immediate suspect would be the bushings in the "tailpiece." They need to be tight enough to resist any wobble or movement, but they should allow the arm and tailpiece assembly to freely travel. Check the roller bar in front of the trem tailpiece as well. The strings pass under it, and it should roll freely and not bind. If there is any "hang" in either piece, you have a problem.

Is the spring under the arm seated correctly? The spring itself could be the issue.

Finally, I would check the roller bridge. Like any bridge, it should be firmly affixed with no movement and no play in the mounts. The saddles should roll feely.

Good luck.

You didn't mention checking but that doesn't mean you didn't, I'm going Captain Obvious here and saying a likely culprit could also be the nut and/or string post windings.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Good suggestion. You know, we sometimes get so occupied with one end that we forget about the other. Could be anything on the headstock end from a binding nut, impropper winding, or a loose or bad machine head.

Is the problem across all of the strings? If so, it's not likely to be a single nut slot or tuner. If all of the strings are affected i suppose *all* of the tuners could be suspect, otherwise I would be looking at the fat end. I know zilch about Bigsbys though, so I'm really not of much help.

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Jim Hansen

I just stick with the belief that no trem is perfect and they all eventually go out of tune.

Ever check out EverTune bridges? Don't know if it would work in this application though.

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

Start at the peghead... are all the tuners on tight, and are the knobs tightened down to eliminate slack?

Is the string wound on the peg shaft with no chance for slippage?

Are any of the strings catching in the nut? Smooth the slots out or lube them.

The bridge - same deal. The string can't catch anywhere - eliminate any friction by smoothing surfaces or lubing them.

The Bigsby - installed tightly? Any friction in the components? Smooth or lube. Also check the spring for slack. You can also shim it up to increase the tension.

Does the guitar need to be intonated?

Are the strings just crappy? (they are the cheapest thing on the whole guitar next to the strap knobs, ya know).

Sure it's not the player?

Let us know if you get it squared away.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Also the strings must be fully (but not over) stretched and stable, or else it won't stay in tune either.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

It does return to pitch if you" fwap" it. The nut slots are too low, that is another issue, but they do not seem to be hanging up in the slots. I will disassemble and inspect tomorrow morning and see what I find. Thanks all, I'll let you know what it is when I find it.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Let us know how hat comes out.
It's not "fwap!",
it's "splink!".

So here's the deal. Nut is redone and not the issue. Thought I found it when I found 3 of the bridge rollers seized, they are now all free and functioning. cleaned and re-lubed all the pivots on the Bigsby. Problem persists, only when returning form pulling sharp with the bar, all strings will hang about 20 cents sharp. If the bar is pushed flat it will return to pitch. Any ideas? I can find nothing that drags or binds anywhere, it's almost like the string tension is not great enough to fully return the system to pitch. Strings are 11-50's

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I no nothing about Bigsby's but I wonder what string gauge you are using? Is it possible it needs more string tension?

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Jim Hansen

i think i know what's wrong here: its a Bigsby!
those things are nonfunctional, archaic, horrible contraptions, which is why they became uncommon after the 1950s when superior designs evolved...there's a reason why Jeff Beck doesn't use 'em....

Yeah. Don't pull up on the bar.

Seriously. It's not a Floyd or a Kahler and wasn't intended to be pulled up.
I thought it was a problem when the bar was depressed.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Owner has a 335 with a factory installed Bigsby, it functions flawlessly, up or down. Only difference I see is in break angle at the bridge, but the rollers should take care of that. So is the 335 the anomaly?

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

This is gonna sound lame...
Sometimes the guitar is gonna do what it's gonna do...
And we are powerless to change that.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Not lame at all Chris, I've played my whole life and have experienced those guitars with quirks myself and this may be another of them. I still suspect the bridge, it is the weakest link. It is not a Schaller but a cheaper die-cast import. While the rollers all now roll, its definitely not a precision part. Of course I couldn't guarantee a new bridge will cure this either, It is an import clone and the neck angle looks a bit shallow compared to a Gibson and who knows what other dimensional differences might exist. Thanks all for the input, I'm a Floyd Rose man myself and don't really play around with these type trems and wanted to be sure I wasn't overlooking anything.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Hard to tell without seeing the exact bridge, but some of those roller bridges have a 'lip' on each side, and if the string angle at the bridge is too steep, it's possible that the strings can hang up on that lip, making the rollers not do their job. Just a thought.

I have a bigsby on my tele and it functions perfectly and stays in tune great. But it was a PITA to get the bridge set up properly so that the action and radius was right, and the strings didn't make contact with the lip on the back of the bridge.

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Mike Hoenerhoff
Elderly Instruments

OK, problem solved. I saw Mike the Guitar Dr. at the Mid Atlantic Luthiers meeting yesterday and talked to him about it. He suggested stringing it a different way. Instead of running the strings under the tension roller I ran them over the top of it, this gives a break angle similar to a 335 and what do ya know.... It now functions and returns to within 1 or 2 cents of pitch every time, up or down. It did change the feel of the unit though and we will have to see if the player is agreeable to the new feel.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/