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http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/ProductID/F5026

I think this is the white glue Franklin makes and markets as Cabinet Maker glue. The price is right and the 2gallon pack rings a bell.

Clear glue line, sandability, solid woods, etc etc....http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/ProductID/F5026



This is the stuff John. I like it. Compare it to Titebond Wood Glue, check the properties. Benefit, you get translucent glue lines inside the guitar and not yellowed glue lines which are more visible.

Oh yeah, shelf life on Titebond is 12 Months, so if it's old when you get it, the clock's ticking...Dickey38728.5212037037

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

or this one... but the first one is touted to be stronger.. although the bond strength is about the same...

http://www.titebond.com/download/pdf/ww/AllPurposeWhiteTB.pd f


I wonder if there is anyway to know for sure if this is the same stuff.... prolly not.John Mayes38730.8010763889

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

John, you seem to have navigated their difficult website better than me this time. Actually the two gallons I purchased was Franklin Cabinet Makers Glue. There were some differences in the two you have up on the post.

Did you catch the part about Freezing of the Glue? Really doesn't affect it, except causes the glue to thicken slightly. But then they say Keep From Freezing. Makes sense to me.

It also mentions Chalking Point of 50 degrees F, the same temp as their minimum use temp. I like being able to read the specs on glue like this. It's out there if one does his homework.

They have some other white glues one is wood molding glue, the all purpose, and the cabinet makers glue, all labelled Titebond. They private label too, hence my bottle of Paxton's.

It looks like we haven't quite hit on what I have. The point here being that LMI probably doesn't make their glue. An issue is control of materials, age, shelf life, etc... That's probably a good reason to use Titebond off the shelf at Lowe's if one can't go direct to the manufacturer. I know that manufacturers sometimes code their dates so it's not always easy to determine.

I see one more characteristic on the glue bottle which is named Paxbond Liquid Resin Glue, Freeze/Thaw stability (5 cycles): Excellent

So that's probably not an issue with the LMI glue either. Matter of fact, when I was at LMI in May, Chris had a bottle of the LMI glue on the Luthier's Discount Rack for half price.

Since I'd never used the glue I asked and he stated it had been frozen solid and thawed for testing. Test over it was for sale. I guess it passed the test. I bought a new, unfrozen bottle. Grin.

Side note: Anyone in the Windsor area north of San Francisco: You can have a bunch of fun in the Luthier Discount Rack! I did.

Okay, Franklin has two websites, www.franklinadhesives and www.titebond.com The latter is easier to navigate, and I do find the Titebond White Glue under Cabinet Making Glue among others there. So this must be it John.



Here is the page link:   http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB.A SP?UserType=1&ProdSel=P rodSelectorIntroTB.asp



Okay, here it is in the product guide. Most of the way down the list. This glue is for cabinet making. Something caught my eye, a flourescent glue, which is used so that woodworkers can inspect the glue line under blacklight to check for complete glueup and spots on the surface. Important if you are staining wood. Not so important to us. So to answer your question, it's the Titebond White glue under the cabinet making section. It is not the titebond all purpose white glue elsewhere.

Titebond Product Guide for the Titebond White Glue (cabinetmaking)Dickey38727.505474537

Bruce or John,
Have either of you ever used the All Purpose White glue?
According to the info sheet the bond strength is the same as the Orginal and more than the White Cabinet glue

Nope, Just getting started with my JUG o' Titebond. Another luthier on this forum has used it more than I if he cares to chime in. The All Purpose was listed in a different area of the site, but may be the same stuff in a different bottle. I bet it would work too. AT 15 US a bottle, why not get the cabinet makers white?

Again, My interest is clear glue lines inside the guitar. I guess if LMI wasn't overpriced, I'd just use theirs. Plus mine came directly to me from Tulsa off a fresh shipment. Me likes that.

[QUOTE=Dickey]Again, My interest is clear glue lines inside the guitar. I
guess if LMI wasn't overpriced, I'd just use theirs.[/QUOTE]

Forgive me if I'm a little thick but I'm confused, Bruce have you used that
glue already and does it hold as well as the yellow one? Same working time
(I'm slow at clamping…)? The cabinet maker comes in 1gal bottles, right?

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

goodness I could never use half a gallon of it before it went bad.

Has anyone tryed the weldbond products?



They have this universal adhesive as well as a white glue.

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Weldbond was recommended to me by John Greven for inlaying rosettes.

For what its worth, I've been using the LMI white for 5 years, love it!. I never go through the whole thing in 12 months so I always end up with a little bit left for household stuff. I have never had a problem one with it, and will continue to use it.
As for it being expensive, I suppose if I were going through a gallon a year, it would be expensive and I would probably look for an alternative. But for 7.00 bucks a year, for me, that's manageable.
I seem to ALWAYS need something from LMI so I just think ahead and add it to an order so I dont even consider the shipping cost a factor.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=D.L.Huskey] Bruce or John,
Have either of you ever used the All Purpose White glue?
According to the info sheet the bond strength is the same as the Orginal and more than the White Cabinet glue[/QUOTE]

If you read some of Cumpiano's articles he mentions gluing down bridges for testing (in the white stage) with just good ole elmers and that it has held strung up guitars for a year, he uses it because with a little moisture and heat he can pop it back off.

Bruce glad to see you back pal, I'm going to order a gallon of that and play with it for a while... good stuff...

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Paul, I hate to say this now that you are interested. It ships in a two gallon box..... Grin. Give one to a friend, that's what I did.

Bruce: This is not the same glue as LMI white. The TB glue slides around (just like their original yellow) and is much thinner. Doesn't smell the same either. Just me $.02

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Tim...yours is the best info posted on this subject so far:

Here's my $.02:

1) If someone wants to recommend an alternative to any product over what is commonly accepted by experienced luthiers, I'd like to recommend that extensive testing comparing the 2 be done first. Recommending the purchase of gallons of an unknown product to replace pints seems a bit impulsive. To my way of thinking, I want to see data first.

2) In this case, the solution to adhesion problems should be with LMI. If there are so many people who are experiencing problems with the product, then posting the solutions that LMI proposes would be more informative and helpful for the group.

3) I have never had an adhesion problem with LMI white glue. I mostly use HHG and use very little of LMI white. Like Lance, I replace my stock once a year.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Hi Tim, Welcome back.

It is glue though, and clear glue at that. I just know Chris isn't sittin' around in the back room of LMI with a bunch of raw materials mixing this stuff up. And it's not rocket science either.

Titebond yellow is hard to beat and has been my glue of choice until now. The LMI White has been getting a beating in the press, if you haven't noticed. I've never used it, just seemed a bit pricy, although I did buy some in May, guess it's time to pour a little on wood. I'll go do that now and let folks know how it worked out.

Just as a comparison, I can buy a gallon of White Titebond Cabinetmakers Glue for the cost of two tiny 8 0z. bottles of LMI White, that's a fact. Glue quality is another issue of course. I have no bones to pick, this is simply an alternative to what's out there. I bet lots of folks will never try the Titebond White just because you won't find it at Lowes or Home Depot, it's a pain to procure.

I just checked LMI, they now have the LMI FG white glue in gallons $71.85/gal. Titebond White, a gallon, is $15.51 from the link at the top of the page Woodworkers Warehouse. I got my glue from Paxton's in Tulsa, and the price was the same.

How'd your glue article turn out? That was a lot of work you did and it needs to be shared.

Tim and JJ

You say this is untested glue, go check the PDF's listed in this thread, then come back and say that.

If you asked me, due to the failure rate I've been seeing and all the moaning and groaning over the LMI FG folks would welcome an alternative with known properties.

Tim, I never said this was the same as LMI white glue, but it is Titebond made by a reputable company Franklin Adhesives. Don't take my word for anything, but will you take their word, either? Check the pdf's.

Now, when I got my bottle of LMI White FG I got zero specs. I got no extensive testing data, like Franklin offers on all their glues. Plus, based on the overwhelming positive reviews I've seen for the old Yellow Titebond, it just makes sense that the White Titebond Cabinetmakers glue with near identical specs, would be a good product. I've been wrong before.

Well, according to Franklin, Titebond II has less creep and is a better glue than Titebond original, but every user experience claims difference. Have you done a little 'field testing' comparing Titebond original to the white titebond, in terms of drying hard? Are the specs the same as Titebond original?

I'll never bother with the White stuff, since, well, I have trouble finishing 16 oz bottles within a year, let along a gallon.

The testing that would be meaningful in my mind would only come from a luthier with an engineering or scientific background who could develop a specific protocol where A vs B tests were performed. Furthermore, a meaningful number of samples would need to be used and a method developed for bonding the pieces together. Anything that would be objective in evaluating the joint strength would also be necessary.

Manufacturers' data is never comparative ...it only states the chemical and physical properties of their product...we can compare those values with other products by looking at their data sheets. It's up to us to do the hard work and compare bond qualities of one vs. the other. I think that's the responsibility we should take before recommending a completely new and untested product.

Having said this, I just wanted to alert others who take what they hear on forums like this as gospel. Let's try to keep our standards as professional as possible and take a conservative approach before recommending such an important alternative.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

All data aside, its just TOO TOO much glue for someone like me, and most other hobbyists as well.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=Dickey] Yes, yes, yes, yes.[/QUOTE]

I find the open time on the LMI white to be noticably shorter than yellow titebond.

Not a critisism... but certainly a difference.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock, the comparison was not to LMI white, it was to Titebond Yellow, the two Franklin products have similar properties.

JJ Wins.

I Find the information that bruce provided interesting, for me, if I could have a white glue with the performance and reliability of titebond original, I'll take it.

Titebond Original has a proven track record, all I hear people not like about it is its intial tack.

The revues for LMI White are mixed, a lot of people say they have had no problem, but then there are a fair few around who seem to have a problem. The thing thats always put me off the LMI White is not knowing the chemical composition or indeed the manufacturer.

So your left with a choice use a glue you don't know the composition of from an unknown manufacturer, which at best has a patchy reputation for guitar making, or a glue backed by composition and test data from a highly respected adhesive manufacturer, whos other adhesives are used extensively in guitar making, and have a good reputation, and also costs a lot less.

I know which I would use.RussellR38730.576712963

[QUOTE=Dickey] Brock, the comparison was not to LMI white, it was to Titebond Yellow, the two Franklin products have similar properties.

JJ Wins.[/QUOTE]

Ahhhh.... oops.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com