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I'm guessing it's a type of bracing system? Seems like one of those secret luthier terms that is known and understood by a few in the know. Anyone care to share?

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Thank You and Best To All

It Is a Method for joining the two halves of the Top and Back together. I use a different method so I will let one of the guys who uses it explain the method in detail.

I use it.

It is pretty simple. After the edges of your boards are perfectly jointed put the plates on a sacrifice board, insert a thin board, that is about 3/16" high and long as the 2 plates, by about 1/2" wide, under the two plates in the center.... effectively creating a "tent"

Drive Nails along one side of the board (far right or far left) and then drive matching nails directly opposite the first set. (I usually use about 5 nails per plate). When you pull the "stick" out and push down the tent will collapse and you will get clamping pressure from the nails.

Once the pressure is on, place a couple of small weights (hammer, 5lb plate, whatever is convenient) on the plate to make sure it doesn't pop up from the clamping pressure.

A couple notes of caution... when you do this MAKE SURE you put a piece of wax paper between your sacrifice board and the plate. Otherwise when it dries you will have a problem.   

Also, don't go crazy and make an extreme amount of clamping pressure. The joint needs to be perfect before you glue it up. If it is this will be more than sufficient clamping pressure. If you try to close imperfections in your joint you are ASKING for trouble somewhere down the road.



Brock Poling38732.7059606481

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] I use it.

It is pretty simple. After the edges of your boards are perfectly jointed put the plates on a sacrifice board, insert a thin board, that is about 3/16" high and long as the 2 plates, by about 1/2" wide, under the two plates in the center.... effectively creating a "tent"

Drive Nails along one side of the board (far right or far left) and then drive matching nails directly opposite the first set. (I usually use about 5 nails per plate). When you pull the "stick" out and push down the tent will collapse and you will get clamping pressure from the nails.

Once the pressure is on, place a couple of small weights (hammer, 5lb plate, whatever is convenient) on the plate to make sure it doesn't pop up from the clamping pressure.

A couple notes of caution... when you do this MAKE SURE you put a piece of wax paper between your sacrifice board and the plate. Otherwise when it dries you will have a problem.   

Also, don't go crazy and make an extreme amount of clamping pressure. The joint needs to be perfect before you glue it up. If it is this will be more than sufficient clamping pressure. If you try to close imperfections in your joint you are ASKING for trouble somewhere down the road.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks Brock, Clear and easy to understand, I appreciate the effort.

Larry

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Brock, if i may ask a simple or two question, would it be recomended for a beginner or should i just do it a la Hoffman way ? Also, do you use hhg for that center joint ?

Brock, that is interesting.

I thought tenting was using five strips of masking tape brought taught across a join in a top dry.

Then, simply flip the top and raise the center of the join exposing the edges for gluing.

Apply glue, drop the "Pup Tent" (the top), remove excess glue and apply five strips of masking to the opposite side, across the join.

Set aside to dry, grab the next top for gluing.

I learnt this on the OLF from someone. No nails, no sacrifice, and no, I'm not making any DVD's.

I think the tenting method is as simple as you will find anywhere. There are lots of ways to skin this cat... So whatever you are most comfortable.

Regarding the HHG.... I know many will disagree with this, but I would skip HHG on your first few builds (especially on the top and back center joints). There is a learning curve to hide glue and I am not one to try to tackle 10 ** new ** things at once. I try one new thing, master that then move on to incorporate another new thing.

I would absolutely use titebond for your first few instruments.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Dickey] Brock, that is interesting.

I thought tenting was using five strips of masking tape brought taught across a join in a top dry.

Then, simply flip the top and raise the center of the join exposing the edges for gluing.

Apply glue, drop the "Pup Tent" (the top), remove excess glue and apply five strips of masking to the opposite side, across the join.

Set aside to dry, grab the next top for gluing.

I learnt this on the OLF from someone. No nails, no sacrifice, and no, I'm not making any DVD's.
[/QUOTE]


Not as I understand it. I first became aquainted with the idea in Melvyn Hiscock's book. I know some folks are using tape for clamps... I have even tried it... It seems to work ok, but I prefer the nails. I suppose it is just what I am most used to.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Thanks Brock

Brock, I have no formal lutherie training, only what I learned here and elsewhere, a few books. So just repeating stuff I heard.

I guess I just heard of the tape method first. That makes sense. I don't know who came up with it, I just like it. ONCE I tried it, I abandoned the gobar deck for tops, but go back there when I do a D35 back with multiparts to glue up with center strips.

Nice to know various methods and land on one you like, long as it works. I'm switching to hide on this joint for sure and if Coach Mario keeps it up, I'll be HIDING everything.

Bruce
That be me and you decribed it correctly. Brocks method is very similar but would exert more pressure on the joint. I have also used it. Al Carruth did have some reservations on whether the tape would give sufficient clamping pressure and I can't argue with a man as knowledgable as Al. What I look for when pulling the tape is a nice even amount of glue squeeze out. So far so good. Maybe just dumb luck. I have also used a simple method of wedges that works quite well.

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My only "fear" with the tape method is that it will release (you know how a few pieces of binding tape never actually adhere.)

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock I use the StewMac brown masking tape and have never had it come loose.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
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The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I did like Brock said, except I didn't use nails. I just used a straight edge clamped to the table on either side.

Ron (Grizzled Old Man)

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

I've been successfully using the BLUE high quality easy release masking tape from ACE Hardware. You can get too much tack on these tops. I've used the LMI Brown Binding tape and it works great, but you have to be a bit careful upon removal is all.

I hate trying to get any of it off when you've superglued bindings in place, it's a pain, the CA and binding tape glue become one. I have this love / hate relationship with CA.

I use 4 or 5 strips of tape to hold the pieces together and aligned and use the nails along each side like Brock. But it just never occured to me to use a stick underneath the pieces. Simple. Thanks Brock.

Sometimes you can't see for looking...D.L.

[QUOTE=Dickey] I've been successfully using the BLUE high quality easy release masking tape from ACE Hardware. You can get too much tack on these tops. I've used the LMI Brown Binding tape and it works great, but you have to be a bit careful upon removal is all.

I hate trying to get any of it off when you've superglued bindings in place, it's a pain, the CA and binding tape glue become one. I have this love / hate relationship with CA.[/QUOTE]

You may already know this, but 3M makes a clear tape that CA won't stick to. It is pretty strong and works great when attaching bindings with CA.

I am sure I can probably look up a product number for you if you don't already have it.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

The "tenting" method using nails is described well with images in Jonathan Kinkead's book "Build Your Own Acoustic Guitar"

Kim

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
You may already know this, but 3M makes a clear tape that CA won't stick to. It is pretty strong and works great when attaching bindings with CA.

I am sure I can probably look up a product number for you if you don't already have it.

[/QUOTE]

Please do!

Exactly as Bruce said, I know from the past that he, BobC and I use the same method. The only difference for me is that I use electricians insulating tape as I feel the stretch in the tape applies just that bit extra pressure, nearly 50 plates joined not one failure.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Colin S] Exactly as Bruce said, I know from the past that he, BobC and I use the same method. The only difference for me is that I use electricians insulating tape as I feel the stretch in the tape applies just that bit extra pressure, nearly 50 plates joined not one failure.

Colin[/QUOTE]
I'll have to give that a try.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Forgive my ignorance ,Is that the black kind of duct tape?

Sorry in advance for a dumb question

Serge

I use the tape method, works with or without the tenting. Tenting is maybe a bit faster, or maybe it's a wash. It does give you pressure across the whole joint right away after you apply glue, so that's good.

I had to start making a notch in each end of one half of the top or back before joining. That gives me a good visual reference for finding the centerline. After it gets all scraped and sanded even, I can't always find the glue line, which is a sign of a good joint I think.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] [QUOTE=Dickey] I've been successfully using the BLUE high quality easy release masking tape from ACE Hardware. You can get too much tack on these tops. I've used the LMI Brown Binding tape and it works great, but you have to be a bit careful upon removal is all.

I hate trying to get any of it off when you've superglued bindings in place, it's a pain, the CA and binding tape glue become one. I have this love / hate relationship with CA.[/QUOTE]

You may already know this, but 3M makes a clear tape that CA won't stick to. It is pretty strong and works great when attaching bindings with CA.

I am sure I can probably look up a product number for you if you don't already have it.

[/QUOTE]

Wow, that sounds sooo useful! Id also like that product number.
Lars Rasmussen38733.3574652778

Yes Brock, I've not seen anyone use Clear 3M, that sounds terrific. Easy removal after CA on the binding, that's gotta be worth ten bucks in agony alone. I want some of that.

Serge, The electricians tape is black vinyl, a buck a roll for no-name stuff, about $3 a roll for 3M. I'm glad someone invented Wirenuts, which is my name on Ebay, Wirenut_2 Here is my favorite quote from teaching electrical to my students: "There are old electricians and bold electricians, there are just no old bold electricians."

Nothing to worry about here, last time I checked spruce doesn't conduct electricity.