Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm gonna keep this breif initially. Primarily because this is all up in the air and I don't know how to fully explain our plans...

My Friend and I are planning on starting a guitar shop out of my garage. He's been a Guitar repairman for 8 years and Has built 2 electric guitars. I have been working on getting a guitar started for 2 years but haven't had the time, money and guts to get very far. We figure with my space and ambition and his experience we could have a good go at repairing guitars and potentially selling our builds.... MAYBE someday make a name for ourselves.

Anyways... our intention initially is repair to gain capital and then get a couple builds done and have a few local guitarsist in bands play them at their shows. Get the word out there.

We have all the ambition in the world. However, i'm sure there are things we are overlooking.

Has anyone been down this road that may have some tips, or even just stories to tell?! I'm excited but also nervous.

Regards,
Trav

My number one tip would to build that first guitar. There is really nothing to be afraid of. Unless he's gonna build them and your just be the man behind the scenes. I'm gonna tell you money will be tight. Materials and tools cost money so you'll need a source of income like a regular job. many of us still hold those. Many of us also have trouble supporting just one person building let alone a partner. I learned what I have learned by reading every guitar and musical instrument book that has ever been written. This was before the internet. Now there is even better info online then was in many of those books. Also a lot of crap too. Also if you are the schooling type I suggest some business course. There have been many that have been great builders but have disappeared from the scene because they were lousy businessmen. Keep those dreams and good luck...Mike

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Another day, another dollar.

You have been working on starting a build for 2 years and you say you are ambitious? Maybe I misread that. Lol
Seriously though, most people start out working a regular job and doing repairs or building on the side. When they get too busy to work the day job, they move full time into repairs. Or they do repairs and set ups at a music store and eventually move to their own shop.
Good luck with your plans. I hope it works out for you!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I hate to be blunt, but you and your friend need more experience to consider starting a business, unless of course there's nobody in your area doing it. I've been doing repairs for 12 years, I've built a dozen electrics, a few basses, and half a dozen acoustics. The market for custom builds is pretty competitive, check around this forum to see what your competition looks like. You may be able to make a living with repairs, but that will depend on how much repair work you can get, and how good you are at it. Good luck with it, sometimes luck is all it takes!

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

I'll agree with Shaw and Fillipo; you need to build that first guitar before you decide you're gonna make a business out of it. Another thing to consider is that guitar builders are typically solo. With two people you need to to bring in twice the income. Most people make a fairly modest income in this business and you can expect it to be a while before you even begin making minimum wage. Which brings me to the other side of the equation, pricing. You need to keep track of all material costs and overhead, then you need to at the very very least, double that in your selling price. You might also need a business license, and of course, pay your taxes at the end of the year. You can pay someone to do this for you, you just need to keep track of all your materials, tools, all expenses related to the business. Contact the Small Business Association for advice, they're a free resource.

All that said, if you really wanna do it, do it. There is a lot of competition, but there's still lots of room for growth in this market, and as long as you make something that stands out from the crowd, you can make it happen. I'm getting ready to start building full time, guitars and other items of various price ranges to get things moving. I live in a small tourist town so I'm gonna try making some cheaper instruments (cigar box guitars, gourd banjo type stuff) and try and get them in the local shops to get things moving. I'm always gonna be building the super high end stuff, but I'm not expecting to sell a $2000+ piece nearly as often as a $150-$200 dollar piece, which I can make from cheap or free materials. It's a good idea to seek out guitar shows and crafts shows (particularly the higher-end, more artistic type) and rent a booth. An aquaintance of mine makes chairs that he takes to art shows and he tells me he can walk away from one of those with $5000.

But build that guitar first. Make sure you really, really like doing it. This is a job like any other, the advantage is having satisfying work, which is worth more than money.

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

I've been doing guitar repair and building guitars since the late 70's. During the 80's I did it for a living, and even employed some apprentices to help me keep up with the work. Now I'm retired, and do it part-time for my family and a few friends.

It's a tough business, and it's getting tougher right now. Our government is making it harder and harder to be in business, and the incredibly low-priced instruments coming from outside the US are just one more huge roadblock to your success.

I've seen far too many people try this route - full of vigor and good intentions, some of them even had mad talent! Very few made a dent in the market.

I'm not saying don't try. I not saying to go for it. What I am saying is make dang sure you're ready for anything, and make sure you LOVE IT! Because ultimately, that's what will make the diff. I only closed my retail shop because all the 80 hour weeks finally burned me out. So.... proceed with caution, k?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

This is some of the advice I was given a few years ago when I started out and it has proven to be very good:

1, Hire an accountant, keeping track of the money is difficult, sales tax, equipment amortization etc. Businesses is about making money and an accountant will help you see if you are doing that. But don't expect to make any money for at least a couple of years. Setting up is expensive and getting the word out will take a lot longer than you think. Also remember guitar players generally don't have a lot of cash to spend on a regular basis.

2, Hire an attorney. Since there are two of you you will need to be some type of corporate entity. If it was just one you could do a DBA as a sole proprietorship, but not two of you. This may also mean you need to pay tax at the corporate rate ( see item 1). What about zoning? is this a legal use of your property?

3, Insurance. Your homeowners policy will not cover damages or losses related to a home business in most cases. Stuff happens, Roofs leak, humidifiers malfunction, etc. Can you afford to pay for it out of pocket when it does?

4, Write out a business plan. After all failing to plan usually has the same results as planing to fail.

This is just the beginning, the tip of the iceberg so to speak. Building guitars is hard, marketing and selling them is even harder. And making enough to live off of is even harder still. Not trying to discourage you, in fact I wish you the best of luck, but you need to be prepared for what you are getting into. If you are going to run a business you must treat it like one always and never like a hobby. Once you treat it like a hobby that's all it will ever be.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I'd do it as a part-time hobby for a while to see if buisiness warrants full-time.
My last hobby was getting broken big screen tv's free on Craigslist, repairing them, and giving them away.
I did about 50 sets. Once the word got out, I had friends neighbors, and people I did not know bringing their junk to my house to repair. Nothing like coming home and finding a giant tv in my driveway. I immediately stopped and put my tools out of sight.
It was fun until I was forced to do it. Then I found the fun hobby of guitar building. I tell everyone that asks me to spend 4 months building them a guitar for 300 bucks that I simply do not have the time.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

And you never mentioned the quality of those two guitars!!! They ok? Great? No one is holding his breath for another custom Tele builder. If you can't provide at least Epiphone quality for, at most, Epiphone cost, etc.. then maybe it should remain hobby status. I don't think you can compete with what is coming from across the borders unless you're really doing something special.

I think all the big manufacturers have a "standard guitar" but in the shape of a Pig. Or a V. Or a reversed Pig or V!!! There's so much more to guitar than a unique body shape or a mahogany vs alder discussion. Maybe you have something truly special but I'm surprised you didn't mention how wonderful the two guitars were or the gimmick that makes them LP-killers or whatever.

When Steve Vai's students ask him "Should I try to make a living in music?" He says, "If you have to ask, the answer is 'No.' If it's not your absolute dream, you can't and won't make it. If you're unsure, then the answer is 'No.'" And I think there's a kindred question for us.

Does the market need these guitars? Or are you making them for fun?

Don't quit your day job until you are absolutely positively 100% sure you're going to make it.

When i got serious I paid a guy to let me work in his shop and lean how to repair, setup, and maintain. Then I spent about 3 years in a little 12X12 warehouse that I rented teaching myself to build from scratch electric guitars. I used those guitars to got a job in a small local music store as a repairman getting paid a small (very small!) salary. Did that for about 4 years then became an independent contractor in a large chain store. Did that for 5 years, now I have my own space. I partnered up with a music lesson teacher and we share a space. It's nice. Each step along the way required determination, and yes, ambition, but especially perseverance and follow through. Also, my work has to be top notch. Word gets around fast how bad or good you are, and ten years from now, people will STILL judge you by the first job you did for them, but also the last job you did for them. If the first job you do for them is crappy, it will also be the LAST job you do for them, and ten years later they will still judge you by it as if you are incapable of growth and learning. If your last job (after ten years) is not so hot, they'll start looking around as if you haven't done a great job for a long time. So get your chops down before you open up your business.

Most of the partnerships that I've seen that actually work involve a clear division of labor. I build and repair, he teaches.
I've seen 2 other viable partnerships, one guy strictly builds and the other guy strictly repairs in both of them.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. I've been crazy busy at my job.

I'n the past month I can say we haven't gotten anywhere except for getting the shop set up and cutting some templates. We've both been in a lot of transitions lately.

I read all of your posts and agree with all of you. Ambition is a minuscule part of the success.

The honest reason I put this post up was because this is happening out of my garage, at my house, and my partner seems to have very lofty expectations of success. I would love to buy into it but I am not at all sure of what it all entails. Thats why I looked to you all to give me a more reality based opinion.

We both also look at it as a hobby with the potential for growth. He has a good amount of people that already come to him for repairs and advice. But i won't be able to speak truthfully about our capabilities until we get our feet wet.

As for the money and start up we have pretty much all the tools we need (more tools is always better) and plenty of materials to start with. We're just hoping that we'll be able to put out a high quality guitar and have pride in our work, and hopefully others will have pride in a custom guitar they purchased off of us. Oh and as for the guitars that Ryan (my buddy) built, I can't say from experience because i never saw them. I know he sold the first for $1,500 and that guys friend came back for the second for $1,750. I know, that doesn't necessarily mean they were worth that. And, I know, i'm putting a lot of faith in him having never seen a complete build.

As of right now, i have nothing to lose. I haven't dumped anything into it other than the space. For now, i just look forward to learning.

Thanks all, I'll be posting more in the future when we get the ball rolling

Good luck and welcome to the rough and tumble world of lutherie.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/