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New builder, wrapping up my first guitar and I've got about a month to ponder my final polishing/buffing of the body. I was thinking about getting a shop fox buffer set up, as the SM is a little more than I'm willing to spend right now but I got to thinking. Is using a buffer setup with polishing compounds the only way to get a good gloss finish? What about the micro mesh stuff, does anyone just sand out to 12,000 grit and call it good?

I sand to 1500 and then use a random orbit buffer intended for automotive use. I use Wizards Finish Cut One Step compound which removes sanding scratches from 1200 grit or higher paper. I follow that up with Wizards Shine Master wax. With the RO buffer and that compound and wax combo I get a nice glossy shine. Look:






So my answer is, No, you don't need a buffer set up to get nice results. Unless you think my results suck, in which case go ahead and blow the money on a full buffing rig. I spent $60 for the buffer and another $50 for the compound and wax.

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PMoMC

I don't think anyone could say your finish sucks! That looks great, I'm gonna look into this the price is right and the results look amazing. How long do you let your lacquer cure before you give it the treatment?

I wait as long as possible but minimally two weeks. Because I brush my finish, they tend to be a bit thicker before sanding than a sprayed finish. Also much bumpier but that's another story. Thus, the first few coats have not fully gassed off before you put more coats on top. If I had more time, I would wait longer. If you are spraying, you wont have to wait a month before wet sanding and buffing.
I posted a tutorial on brushing nitro lacquer you can probably find in the tutorial section. Wet sanding it as well, but that might not have been here. I forget. The nitro fumes kill brain cells from what I've been told.
Hope that helps.

Tony

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PMoMC

well I couldn't find anything in the tutorials about wet sanding, so I guess it was somewhere else. Still, very helpful stuff man, thanks!

Well, my background was in machining and mechanics - and frankly I was kinda clumsy with the big buffing wheels doing aircraft parts.
So when I started doing finishes on guitars I kept it simple - I wet sanded through a couple grits, then used several grits of Meguiars with felt pads, and then simple cotton cloth for final buffing with liquid polishes.
Usually took me about 8 hours to do a complete instrument.

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I did my first by hand too. I wasnt fond of the process! I sand by hand but buff with the RO. Much faster!


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PMoMC

so Tony are you using a DA type sander? Do you use the wizards combo buffing pad? And finally, are the products available at auto finish stores or do you mail order?

I buy them at auto body supply shops. I use a Ryobi Random orbit polisher that I got at Home Depot. I have also used my cordless drill with a foam pad. I use the bonnets that came with the machine. I think one is cotton and the other is polyester. I always forget which one to use so google it. That's what I do! I think cotton is rougher and polyester is smoother. So use cotton for a rougher cut to remove deeper scratches with the compound and polyester for a finer cut.


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PMoMC

I see no need for a commercial buffer unless you are going into commercial production. As you can see, excellent results can be achieved by hand, or with a random orbit buffing attachment, or even with a fleece pad in an electric hand drill. It's mostly the hand of the craftsman that gets the job done--regardless of the tools that are used. If you plan to keep building, then get a buffer. If you think you'll only build a few, then keep it simple for now. You can ramp up later. You'll be just fine either way.
Patrick

I did my first 3 by hand buffing and RO buffing, hated the process and was never totally happy with the results. I went with the shopfox arbor and Menzerna compounds and never looked back. I actually rebuffed the 1st 3 after seeing the results I was now getting. To a casual observer the difference in the look is not really that much but to myself and people who really look close it is considerable. I am still not as happy with my buffing results as I would like to be, but my last project with its black top really helped with my buffing skills. If one really wants to learn buffing do a Black top guitar.

Fred

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I have often wondered if I would get better results with an arbor buffing set up. There is a very distinct difference between the hand rubbed finishes I have done and the ones buffed with the RO. At least there is to me. One day I will have a real sweet buffing set up. One day.

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I found some 4oz sample bottles at my auto finish store for around $3 each.

I did mine with an older Black and Decker auto buffer. A small thing that uses 6" bonnets. It has worked well. Thanks for the tips Tony.

I wet sanded to 1500 using a pink eraser to back the paper up. I see some stray scratches deeper in the finish, but I either need to spend more time with it, or it is a problem with what I was doing with the earlier coats. I think next time I might sand just a bit higher than 1500.

well I couldn't find the wizard's products at O'reilly, despite the fact that their website says they carry it. So I got some Maguirre's compound and polish instead. I'm going to get a small buffer this weekend and give it a go. I did buy some hand pads to test it out and it really seems to polish up nice, but I'm noticing the same as you where there are some deeper scratches that I still have. I'm guessing I need to be more thorough working through the grits, I just hope I don't sand through! (shouldn't, there's a ton of lacquer on this thing)

Another thing I'm noticing is the finish has some slight ripples in it, which are really only noticeable when you look at the reflection of a light bulb. The surface appears flat but I'm wondering if this has to do with the fact that I didn't thin my lac down when I sprayed and it was a bit lumpy going on. I figured I could just level sand and it would be fine, but now I'm second guessing myself. I'll still be happy as this is my first and I'm comfortable with having some imperfections, but I'd like to know how to avoid it in the future.

well, here it is:








It's not perfect but it's my first build and I'm okay with that. It does still have some very fine scratches that you can only see in the perfect raking light, will wax help with that? They're very fine and I'm reluctant to keep buffing it because I'll likely have to add a couple more topcoats and start over. Turned out the ripples and scratches I was getting were due to using dirty sandpaper and not using a block. Lesson learned and the next will be easier, but this one has been sanded to within a mil of its life. I suppose adding more clear wouldn't be the end of the world but I'm getting so anxious to just get it done that I'm not sure I want to go through the trouble.

Whoa. You sure you want to post those pics and have that be your first impression??


Just kidding! It looks great! Those deeper scratches are from not fully sanding out scratches with each successive grit of paper. I get them sometimes too. Annoying buggers! A real pain to get out sometimes too. Live and learn. Spend more time with each grit, and make sure there are no nubs forming on your paper that could make deeper gouges. Very nice results! Also a beautiful guitar. What is the binding? Bocote?

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yeah, that's what I thought. The scratches are definitely from letting nubbins form on the paper, I was using the cloth back polishing papers from stewmac at first and won't use those for sanding finish again. They have a whitish color blended with each indicating color and it's really hard to see the lac build up on those. I'm just gonna leave it though, I'm not selling it and it'll be a reminder of where I came from years from now.

thanks for the compliment, the binding is bocote and the fret board will be ziricote so I guess I'm keeping it in the family. I've got a Mexican theme going on with this thing so seemed appropriate to use those. Thanks again for helping me out man, you def pointed me in the right direction!

Happy to help! It really does look great.


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For those who have never tried one I recommend buying a felt block or two. These are pretty standard in custom furniture finishing, it's how chairs and many other things get buffed. They will follow contours fairly well and rarely burn through the finish at the edges. Used in conjunction with a good polish like Novus #2 it is a fairly quick and easy process, gives a bit of cardio as well

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

That's beautiful, John. Really a nice color job--along with the rest of the finish. I got some of those deep finish scratches in a tailpiece some years ago. Because the piece was small, I bit my lip and rubbed them out. Didn't have to go back to wood to get rid of the scratches, so I was lucky. I am sure you're disappointed, but I doubt that anyone will ever know unless you point them out. Your guitar has such a "Wow" factor, I can't imagine anyone not liking it.
Patrick

Nice!

Hey, John, I kinda late to this party, but looks like you did a fine job. The wood looks great and I really like the colors you have going there. Does a nice job of complementing the beauty of the wood without overpowering it.

As for the very light scratches, I have had some luck with going to a slighty coarser buffing compound and then working back through to the fine stuff--especially if I am concerned that the finish is getting thin. I too use the Meguiars products with a very cheap Harbor Freight R/O auto buffer. Typcially, I wet-sand to 1500 or 2000, then finish with Fine Cut cleaner (#2), Swirl Remover (#9), and New Car Glaze (#6) in that order. I hit the whole thing with some good silicone-free wax.

If I am having trouble with some minor scratches and swirls, I go back to a Medium Cut Cleaner (#1) then back through the Fine Cut, Swirl Remover, and Glaze. That usually takes care of it.

You know in sunlight the marks are invisible, it's just in direct light from a light bulb that they show up. I feel like I have two choices with it right now. I could shoot it with a couple more coats and re-buff it, or I can live with it and possibly distress it which may be the direction I'm heading. I've already relic'd the hardware for it so I think a little distressing would complete the look. However, it's kind of a tough thing to pull the trigger on because I am pretty dang happy with it and am nervous to wreck it. Going that direction poses its own set of questions, as far as how distressed it should be. I kind of think that a few rub marks here and there just won't quite pull off the effect but it's a little less scary than possibly putting some dings or actually scratches in it. The whole time I've been building it I've had in my mind that it was an old, found object so I think the idea of working it a little isn't too far off.

Thanks for all the positive feedback folks! Feel free to chime in with thoughts about my direction.

thought I'd post a pic of my hardware just so you can have an idea:

I don't know if I should take the lack of feedback as a sign that people aren't a fan of the whole idea of "distressing" it, but the feedback I'm getting from most of my friends is that they wouldn't do it. It's leading to more ambivalence on my part, I guess since it's my first I'm caught between having a lot of ideas for things and knowing that I do have my limits at this point. Everyone's main concern is that I might do something to it that would be irreversible and I could ruin it. I dunno, I guess I could lacquer it again and start over...

Don't do it. Just let time and use relic it.

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