Official Luthiers Forum!

   Darn, I hate posting twice in a row, but I'm just reminded about cam-clamps.
   One, they are most excellent, like Mattia's already stated. I'll just add to this. Do not get the Stew-Mac cam-clamps! They use a sort of seration on the aluminium rod, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but those suckers are a real pain to open up after clamping... At first I though it was just me, but then I got some Klemsia clamps from Lee Valley and I couldn't believe the difference. The ease in operation is just night and day (although you will need the Stew-Mac ones if you want the 8 inch reach). Hope this helps.

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

[QUOTE=Alain Desforges]    Darn, I hate posting twice in a row, but I'm just reminded about cam-clamps.
   One, they are most excellent, like Mattia's already stated. I'll just add to this. Do not get the Stew-Mac cam-clamps! They use a sort of seration on the aluminium rod, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but those suckers are a real pain to open up after clamping... At first I though it was just me, but then I got some Klemsia clamps from Lee Valley and I couldn't believe the difference. The ease in operation is just night and day (although you will need the Stew-Mac ones if you want the 8 inch reach). Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]

I have the StewMac clamps and I love them. Only a couple of them have gotten stuck and a good swift whack on the concrete floor usually opens them right up. No problem.

I don't think they are aluminum, but I wish they were. Aluminum clamps cut down on the weight, so glued up rims are much easier to set aside.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

That list of reccomended tools

# Digital hygrometer -- Get it at radio shack or watch the nightly weather forcast and build when appropriate.

# Small hand plane -- I didn't use one on my first build and rarely do now

# Electric hand drill -- You probably alreadey have one and should anyway

# Dremel rotary tool -- Very handy to have

# 5/16" binding router bit -- if you have a router you'll have an assortment

# Ball-bearing binding router cutter set -- depends on what you use to cut the channels

# 1/4" and 3/8"-diameter brad point bit (included in Brad Point Drill Bit Set -- get a cheap set of these

# Chisel -- Yeah you'll need some

# Rasp #3064 -- get one at Ace HW

# Half-round bastard file -- Ace

# Smooth mill file -- How many do you need anyway

# Rat-tail file -- Not sure why you'll need it but you probably already have one

# Nut-slotting files (#4541, 4542, 4543, and 4544 are suggested for acoustic guitar) -- there are other ways

# Fret crowning file -- you can get around this but it's real handy to have

# Fret cutters -- You got some wire cutters?

# Fret leveling bar -- carpenter’s level could also be used

# Fret hammer -- any soft faces hammer, mine is brass

# Ruler -- yep

# Tape measure -- yep

# Long straightedge -- probly should

# Feeler gauges -- parts store

# 16" radius gauge -- I don't have one

# Small razor saw -- or a nice little backsaw

# Razor knife (X-acto)

# Scraper blade -- yep

# Bridge pin reamer -- unfortunately although I think I did my first with a rattail file

# Violin reamer (to enlarge pegholes for bushings) -- drill'm the right size

# Centerpunch or awl

# Cam clamps -- or a go-bar deck which is much cheaper and very usefull

# Spool clamps -- why if you've got the above listed clamps

# Clothespins (50)

# Small artist brush

# Rubber squeegie (could also use an old credit card)

# Guitar capo -- Not sure why you need this to build a guitar

# Heat gun -- if you need one borrow it from your wifeJohn How38735.6621180556

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Wow Brock, at 15 bucks a pop, I can see you have quite an investment just in your clamps!!!
I don't know then but I have 4 from Stew-Mac and every time I clamp something with them, I have to fight to get them opened up, effectively having to revert to just pulling on them still clampled to whatever item I'm gluing up or fastening to a bench or what have you... I guess I'm just unlucky or they've changed their desing...

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

I say jump in with both feet, tools or no. My first instrument project was a banjo. I'd had no previous experience except crude work with a hammer, nails and handsaw. No books. I bought the pot assembly and a walnut neck blank. It took me a month to carve the neck with a 1/2" chisel and a sharp pocket knife. The extensive inlaying on the fb and head took 3 months, using an Exacto blade and a 1/16" chisel made from a file. No power tools, no jigs. I didn't have a coping saw, so I carved the headstock shape with the knife. What I didn't have in tools I made up for with passion and determination, which I think were the most valuable tools I had. The "right" tools would have made the work go more quickly, and the results might have been less amateurish, but I learned far more than I think I could have with the tools I thought I needed. There's just no substitute for putting a chisel or knife to wood if you want to get a tactile feel for a wood's hardness, carveability, splintering, etc. That first experience was the hardest I'd ever worked, which makes it all the more memorable. 30 years on, I still use a few of those crude old tools and each time I do, the thrill of that first build comes back to me. If I'd had a router or other tool I'd lusted after back then, and fired it up today I doubt that it would have the same lessons attached to it.

So, jump in and build from your heart. The tools and finesse will come in their own time.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Thanks Pat,for when i'm tempted to compare myself to others and feel sorry for myself, i can otherwise look back and be proud of what is achieved with the minimum i had!

You are a great philosopher my friend!

Serge

[QUOTE=Alain Desforges]   Wow Brock, at 15 bucks a pop, I can see you have quite an investment just in your clamps!!!
I don't know then but I have 4 from Stew-Mac and every time I clamp something with them, I have to fight to get them opened up, effectively having to revert to just pulling on them still clampled to whatever item I'm gluing up or fastening to a bench or what have you... I guess I'm just unlucky or they've changed their desing... [/QUOTE]

Mine "hang" under my small work bench in the open position -- small ones on one side, big ones on the other. When I need them I simply grab them, flip them and gravity does all the work. Don't store them closed, it makes clamp up too hard.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Serge, I can tell you're a hopeless romantic.

Not long ago, here or on another forum I don't recall, there was a picture of a handmade or perhaps I should say homemade classical guitar, the builder's first. It looked like it had been finished with a rasp, the body was lopsided and the frets were round wire glued onto the fretboard, or maybe onto the neck. The builder had posted a sound file, and it sounded amazingly good, maybe because of his skill in playing or perhaps because of how it looked. But he must have wanted it bad enough to go ahead and build it, and in the end he had something he could make beautiful music with and be proud of. For him, maybe that's what mattered.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I don't know Pat,

i do know that for my first attempt, it looked so hard to achieve, so much to learn and an urge and desire so strong that i knew i was heading face first and ready to accept mistakes right away.

i reckon that my aim was very humble i.e to make a soundbox out of oak ply or veneer and make it sound and told myself that if i was going to make that sound, that i would go for the real thing after because of the money involved in this endeavour.. In my book, if it is about aiming, i got exactly what i looked for and that is why my aiming for no 2 has changed dramaticly.

I guess nothing happens for no reason, right after my first buid was done, took a little break of three weeks and found this awesome forum, thanks to John Mayes! I feel that i'm more equipped to aim better now that i found you guys!
And feel privileged when chattin' with you too friend!

Serge

When I started I wanted to build completely with hand tools. So I bought what I thought I needed and began. About 60 minutes into my journey I changed my mind...

I was a complete woodworking virgin and had no tools. I believe that tooling (including a $99 table saw, $99 belt sander and $49 drill press) and the materials for #1 cost me about $1500. I used the Cumpiano book to get a basic tool list.

The point is you can get by on the cheap if you need to. John How's list looks pretty good. Klemsia clamps are a must. I still only have four of each size. Other clamps can be had pretty cheap at Harbor Frieght, or Costco. You can never have too many clamps. I bought a bunch of old files and rasps at the flea market. I bought (quality) planes off of Ebay.

You can look at this two ways. Buy cheap, if you get hooked (and you will) replace cheap for quality over time. Or you can buy Top of the line so if you decide to quit after one or two guitars, you can sell to recoup some of you money. If you get hooked...(see above) you have quality stuff from the start. Buy once, cry once.

Whatever path you choose do yourself a favor and when buying tools that cut, buy quality.

Did I mention you can never have too many clamps..?

Best of luck keep us posted.

You know, that's the first time I've seen a whole herd of cam clamps at the same time.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Lots of good advice here!
One of the most often used tools in my shop is a simple clear plastic drafting square. (Staedler calls it a "triangle" in their catalogue).
With an exacto knife & an accurate square, I scribe a line from the centre of the base edge to the exact centre of the peak. This makes a very useful tool for laying out lines perpendicular to a base line. (ie... lay the scribed line over your plan centre line & in one stroke you can mark your saddle location on both sides of the centre line.)
These "triangles" are dead accurate (if you buy the good American made ones) & only cost a few bucks.
The other thing I use all the time is the cheap plastic "box knife"... the ones with the snap-off blades.

I'm going to state the obvious here, but the internet is a great tool. There are several sites dedicated to builders and you can find ways to do almost anything with almost nothing! I'm nearly finished with my first build and I know that I could not have done it without the MIMF, this forum, and the other Luthier forum. The builders here (and there) are very saavy. There are also several builders that have documented the process (Mario has a site that I visit constantly). Hoffman also has a build that's a little harder to navigate (for me), but it's all there!

I'm really grateful that these talented builders take the time to document their builds and answer our questions.

Ron

Thank you for all the replies and excellent advise.

I am so inspired by all that I read within this thread.

I plan to begin my build in the not to distant future and I will post the process as much as I can. In the meantime I will most certainly continue reading the threads within this forum.

There's great sage wisdom here and I hope to be able to contribute as much as I possibly can. Who knows, maybe I can help someone else take the leap......

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Dr. P

Brock, I've never seen so many Klemmsia Klamps in one place. Hey guys, we've overloaded him I'm afraid. That's why building your first in a class is so nice, others have the needed tools.

But for the cost of most classes, you "can" afford the tools after all! Someone mentioned the gobar deck, that to me after the chisel is one of the most used tools in my shop.

And then there is the bandsaw, the jointer, the thickness sander, the circle cutter, the dremel tool, and the drill press..... ad infinitum....

Rome wasn't built in a day, most of us in guitarmaking, in addition to our lust for fine woods, is the propensity to be toolaholics. Gotta have 'em, some work better than others....

Again, can you believe all of Brock's Cam Clamps! Me jealous! I have sixteen and want'um more.

[QUOTE=Dickey] Brock, I've never seen so many Klemmsia Klamps in one place.

Again, can you believe all of Brock's Cam Clamps! Me jealous! I have sixteen and want'um more.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, I know.... I have a weakness for cam clamps. They are just so perfect for everything. I have them hanging under every bench I have in multiple sizes. Not a day goes by that I don't use them to clamp something up, and I find they make a good 3rd hand too.

Regarding the class....

I know they are expensive, but I consider these investments money very well spent. The amount if time, and money you spend on mistakes goes down tremendously (well it does for me at least) after you have a skilled luthier watch over your shoulder and share his wisdom at every step of the way.

I am to the point now where I feel pretty comfortable with the building process yet I still try to get out for 1 - 2 classes per year to sharpen particular skills and work with a luthier who I think can take me to the next level.

I am just really bummin that I have a schedule conflict in February or I would be hangin with Ervin...   

Classes are certainly not ** required ** but I think that the money I have spent on this has been the best investments I have made.

just my .02 worth....

Brock Poling38739.6214467593

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com