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I am starting to build my second guitar using Australian Black B&S. Was going to use a mahogany neck, but just came across a picture of a guitar made with an AB neck. Looked gorgeous, but I haven't been able to locate a source for the neck blank. If anyone knows where they are hidden, I would love the help.

Kevin

This wood may make the instrument "neck heavy "

Regards KiwiCraig

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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actually it would not make the instrument very neck heavy. check out the difference in density with blackwood v mahogany. Now if your talking AFRICAN blackwood then yeah fahgettaboutit.

Tasmanian blackwood:650 kg/m3

Hondo Mahogany: 675 kg/m3

So Mahogany is actually heavier!!

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Weight @ 12%

Acacia Melanoxlon (aus. Blackwood) 40 Pound per cu.ft.

Swietenia Macrophylla ( H. Mah.)   31 pound per cu.ft.

Also worth noting:

" Acacia melanoxylon is known to be an important cause of allergic contact dermatitis " (Pub Med)

KiwiCraig

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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I looked up the numbers too at quite a few differnt places online and All of them had them weighing about the same or hondo Mah weighing more. Of course there is so much variance in wood it's hard to make a blanke statement saying one wood will make it neck heavy. I've built with aussie blackwood a number of times and it is not noticably different in weight than mahogany is so it will not make a guitar neck heavy. I say if you can find it use it!!

That said why don't you, living in australia, send me about 500 board feet of the best stuff around and send it to me for evaluation ;)John Mayes38738.8520138889

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

I've got a bunch of blackwood (sorry, it's all mine I tell ya!). There's a real variety of densities. Some that I'm using at the moment is lighter than Honduran Mahogany and a bit softer too, but would make a nice light neck. But some other stuff that I've got is very dense and heavy and would be too heavy for a neck. Both the light and heavy stuff has curly figure.

I don't know if the variance it due to where it's grown; from an English type climate in Tasmania to the tropics of Queenland. My stash was all sold to me as coming from Tassy, but as I didn't cut it I'll never know for sure.

John is right, the variation of kg per M3 is very broad, so broad that I question any text that so boldly places a set figure on density for this wood. IMO, this goes for a lot of species not just blackwood. IE: My countrymen and my self are all Australian but we are all quite different even within the same genotypes.

More so than in us humans, environmental influences play a huge part in developing the properties of timber that a individual tree will produce. This is because we, as humans can move freely around and change our environment and diet at will, were as trees can not. {unless of course you live in the 60's, but that is another story .}

Aussie blackwood grows from Tasmania, which is cool and has high rain fall, across to Victoria on the mainland, up the coast through New South Wales and into Southern Queensland which is dramatically warmer and dryer when compared to Tasmania.

Maton and many smaller luthiers produce instruments with Blackwood necks. It is fine for this purpose, and is touted to be very stable, just be selective. Generally, if the blackwood is dark, it will be heavier. For necks, look for the lighter coloured timber, the lighter the colour the lighter the neck would be the rule.

As for a source of neck wood, I may have a look around and see, but I do not know any off hand. Most interest of course is directed toward back and side sets and if you play an Aussie Blackwood instrument, you will immediately understand why most luthiers will risk the scratchable itch to sooth the unscratchable itch of the woodaholic.

Cheers

Kim

Sorry Paul,

Must have been typing my reply while you were posting yours.

Kim

It's in the mail John ! Consider it done ! Hope it doesn't go missing

Now,,,, In return ,could you forward about the same in Snakewood please ?

Regards KiwiCraig

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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snakewood? Man all we got here in Oklahoma is red oak! And some brushy cedar trees (not the guitar cedar (which actually is not even a cedar)but the brush/large bushy type)

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

John,
      Bugger ! (not a swear word in Australia ! )

Guess It'll have to be the bushy cedar then

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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John, send me that red oak of yours i might be able to carve me a bear out of it!

Serge

[QUOTE=larkim] John is right, the variation of kg per M3 is very broad, so broad that I question any text that so boldly places a set figure on density for this wood. IMO, this goes for a lot of species not just blackwood. Cheers Kim[/QUOTE]

Textbooks must provide some sort of reference point to wood properties. It is generally understood that stated weights, SG and so forth are merely averages and not a statement of unbendable fact. Wood weights and SG and strengths can be as much as 25-30% different piece to piece. It's up the the reader to know that pieces and trees can be different than the average species properties. Cedro is touted as super light weight, but I have timbers in my shop heavier than walnut. I have some blackwood salvaged from Golden Gate park in California and some "genuine" Oz blackwood and they are very different in color and weight.Larry Davis38738.9305092593

[QUOTE=Larry Davis]
Textbooks must provide some sort of reference point to wood properties. It is generally understood that stated weights, SG and so forth are merely averages and not a statement of unbendable fact. Wood weights and SG and strengths can be as much as 25-30% different piece to piece.[/QUOTE]

To a point I agree Larry, and I should have made it clearer that we do indeed need reference. We DO have to start somewhere. However these variations are the very reason that such reference books are continually being revised and updated. As science advances, particularly in the field of genealogy, new species and sub species are being described nearly every day, often from what was once considered one and the same. We continue to evolve no?

My main point of concern however is that quite a few people do tend to take what has been published in a reference book as unbendable truth. They do not generally understand nor do they make allowances for the extreme variations that can and do occur.

Opinions formed on a timbers properties based from such reference can be misleading to anyone trying to find out FACTUAL information that is relevant to our chosen craft. Especially should those opinions be then, as they so often are, published on a web site or forum without making the significance of those variations clear.

I guess my point is that I regard it to be a fairly feather weight attack when bashed by someone with such reference when legitimately challenged about their view. This is especially so should I suspect that they have not actually held a stick of the stuff in their hands to qualify their opinion.

Bad or ill informed advice no matter how freely given and well intentioned is still just that.

Cheers all

Kim

[QUOTE=larkim] Sorry Paul,

Must have been typing my reply while you were posting yours.

Kim[/QUOTE]

No worries,

You're absolutly spot-on about the darker the colour of the blackwood the heavier it'll be. I was just having a look through my stash after posting my last msg, and I noticed exactly the same thing.

You should observe , John , that in my original post on this thread ( before you jumped on me with meaningless statistics ),, I advised KevinA , , " that the wood MAY make the instrument neck heavy "
" MAY " , being the operative word here.
As you can now see, it depends on the individual piece of wood. For all I know , Kevin could have had or received one of those heavier types, which would have been totally unsuitable. I'm only trying to help Kevin out here, not score points !
My second post was to show how meaningless these statistics are . Thanks to Larry ,larkim and Paul.

Oh ! and I'll take this opportunity to thank you for your words on my " No 1 finished " thread. After a two year effort , it sure is appreciated .OOOPS ! sorry, you were one of those who never bothered

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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LanceK, Administrator

Thanks for all the input and insihgts. Clearly more research on my part is warranted. Shane is tyring to run some light material down and we'll see where we go from there.