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Ok. So, I'm going old school. I've installed 2 way rods with 100% success. It is my understanding that they are the easiest and most fool-proof, though.

For my next build, I've decided to go with a traditional, one-way rod. I've also decided to make the rod myself, which I've already done. It's a 3/16" steel rod threaded with 10-32 threads with a 3/8" rod for the anchor tapped accordingly and cut down to 1/2" length. I used Lod-Tite red threadlocker as well as peened the end in an effort to assure that it won't come loose.

Just FYI, It is a Gibson style neck. I routed a 3/16" channel that fits the rod like a glove. It is a curved channel cut with a jig that I made which accepts different templates. This particular template I designed in photoshop while referencing as many LP plans as I could find. The curve is 1/2" deep in the center (7th-ish fret area), 3/8" under the nut and somewhere between 1/16" and 3/32" at the anchor. Overall, that's 1/8"-3/16" worth of curvature which I figure should be sufficient. I've heard people claim that a straight rod will work. Doesn't make any sense to me so I went with the curved one. It is my understanding that it doesn't take much and too much can make the rod too sensitive to small adjustments.

I tried to test this configuration by clamping both ends of the fillet in place over the rod and tightening the rod. It didn't seem to work very well. However, I have heard people say that there's no way to tell how this style of rod is going to work until everything is glued up and in place. At that point, it is obviously a hassle if it doesn't.

My questions are -

1. Since the rod is 3/16", I figure my channel should be 3/16" as well so as to yield a tight fit. Correct? I read the Mevlin Hiscock book on this and he made his channel wider and suggested all sorts of stuff like plastic drink straws and soaping or waxing the rod prior to installation to allow it some freedom to pull through the channel. However, everything else I've seen has people cutting a 3/16" channel for this style of rod.

2. Is it dangerous to use something round for the anchor? Is 3/8" not enough diameter to anchor the rod? I've seen it done on one piece Fender necks but with a much larger round anchor that was visible though the back of the neck's heel. Would flat be better? The reason I went with round was because it's much easier to drill a hole than route or chisel a "mini-mortise" to fit a flat piece of steel.

Before I glue everything up, I just want to be sure I'm not doing anything stupid.

Thanks,
-Aaron

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

I can only answer your question with a question. Why the change from a 2 way rod? They work great, you have had 100% success, Why go backwards to a one way rod?

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I use Gibson style one-way trussrods, made from HD stainless 3/16 rod & the stewmac nut & barrel anchor. The slot is flat bottomed and 1/4" wide (...several jigs key off the slot). I push the rod into place through 4 pieces of craft shop felt, which allows it to operate freely & prevents any rattles. (I think some cushioning around the rod is important.) I've never had any problems (and my necks are also graphite reinforced).

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Dave
Milton, ON

Thanks Dave. I am using the same HD rod. Looks just like ones I've pulled from trashed necks before so I figured it was ok. I've been brainstorming a bit since I started the topic. I decided to go with a piece of flat 3/16 thick by 3/4 wide steel for the anchor. Pretty sure that'll hold no matter what. The 3/8" barrel-style anchor seemed to be trying to pull through the mahogany when I tightened it.

I also had an idea to route the channel 1/4" wide until I have 3/16" worth of depth left to go. At that point, I would change over to my 3/16" but and route the bottom 3/16" where the rod actually sits. That way the fillet would only keep the rod in it's channel but not "pinch" it. And then, I could just throw a couple dabs of caulk in the channel to keep the rod from rattling. Make sense? The 1/4" fillet would go down to the very top of the rod and keep it secure in its channel but would sit on 2 - 1/32 "ledges". Am I out of my mind?

Oh yeah... To answer your question, Brian, lets just say I'm trying to broaden my horizons. 2-Way rods are great and easy to install but one-way rods are way cheaper. Something to be said for tradition as well. If you want to learn how to play like Keith Richards, you could listen to a Sheryl Crow record or a Black Crowes record, but why not just go straight to a Rolling Stones record and truly learn where it all came from?

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

Not really... at least if you value your time. More work to make one, and more work to install.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Touché. I have a little more time than money. Plus, I'm a template guy. A little more work on the first one maybe. But after that, it's like makin' the doughnuts.

2-way rods are great. No doubt. However, that's not the point of this thread.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

What would that be? I'm serious. I'd enjoy the philosophy backing up that comment.

I use two way rods because the way I build, I generally end up in a neutral position after string tension is applied. It's encouraging to see the instruments all come out the same in this respect but since they do...I can't be sure which way I'm going to have to apply tension. So...I have no choice to use two way rods.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Tradition, meaning that's the way all the classics (that we tend to emulate) were made.

I love 2-way rods. They are a brilliant design. I'm just trying to learn something that I didnt know before. To widen my palette... To expand my knowledge and skillset. That's all.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. FWIW I think the design that Gibson has traditionally used, the one you are copying, is a major reason that Gibson headstocks break off more than any other brand.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I once heard of this guy here in Atlanta that had a Gibson endorsement. Every time Gibson sent him a guitar, the first thing he would do is break the headstock and immediately have it repaired. He claimed it sounded better that way.

I have owned a few Gibsons and never broke a headstock. Closest thing was an SG that I bought with a broken headstock for $60 (with an amp! ). Cost $300 to repair. Sold it to a friend and he still has it and loves it.

The reason they break is due to the 13-17deg angled headstock. The ones without volutes break much easier. I'm not worried as mine will have a thicker neck and a nice volute directly behind the access point.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

Here's a previous thread on truss rods, it also links to a thread previous to it, also about truss rods.

viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=37429

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Lots of makers use an angled headstock with no problems. Gibson saws theirs out of single billets causing short grain run out at the knee. Couple that with the way their truss rod puts compression into the neck and its not a good situation. Martin uses necks made in almost the same way, with one difference....the truss rod. Martin necks don't break anywhere near as often a Gibson.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Does anyone have anything to say that's ON topic? There was already a topic about 1 way vs 2 way rods. And probably another one about angled vs non-angled headstocks. Or scarf joint vs one piece necks. None of this stuff is what I originally posted about. And no... This topic was not really covered in the link posted above. The one guy said what he did wrong which was the most helpful thing I've read yet. I'm looking for advice from people who use this system and can give some specifics about it's installation.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

Yeah, I was waiting for the topic to get back on track. I make my own one way rods. The one thing I am concerned about is your anchor. I don't think it is big enough. I bend a 90 degree hook on the end of mine about 2 inches long and insert that into a hole drilled into the heel. This provides great support.

I use a 3/16" SS rod in a 1/4" slot and I place heat shrink tubing over the rod to provide a snug, vibration resistant fit.

By the way, before leveling the frets I place a bit of tension on the truss rod so that I have some backward adjustment capability in case the neck ever back bows.

Thanks. I changed the anchor over to a piece of thick flat steel that sits in a mortise. Doesn't feel like its going anywhere but I'll take another look.

The backbow while leveling the fretboard is huge, for sure. I just replaced a FB in a tele that had a U channel rod and it worked wonderfully.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

By the way, I thought about setting the anchor in some epoxy like I've seen done on some Fenders. Anyone have experience with this? Is that a decent idea?

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

Yes. I've only made a couple of necks with one way rods, and I set the anchors in epoxy. IMO this is the best way to ensure that the anchor doesn't ever budge. One of the rods had a flat piece of steel welded to the end, making a T shape. The other had some round stock welded to the end, also making a T shape. Both work great.

Has anybody ever tried packing the truss rod channel full of wax and then inserting the truss rod and cleaning up the squeeze out before gluing in the filler strip? It seems like it would solve a lot of issues such as rod rattle, create a barrier to keep the glue from binding the rod and provide a slick surface for it to pull through the channel. Thoughts?

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

You definitely don't want wax to come in contact with any of your gluing surfaces - it could compromise the glue bond. On the necks I've made, I used plastic tubing to eliminate rattle.

I've heard of luthiers that don't use any kind of tubing. In fact I just worked on a Les Paul that had been customized by Dave Johnson, and the customer said that Dave had removed the fingerboard and binding, and replaced figerboard (with Brazilian) and the rod, and eliminated the plastic tubing. It doesn't rattle, but I'm not sure how you would avoid freezing the rod in place with glue - unless you to use wax or something like you said, but again, glue and wax don't get along too well. Personally, I'm scared of the idea of installing the rod without tubing - It sure would suck to do all that work and then wind up with a neck that rattles, or worse - it may not work at all if the glue grabs hold of the rod.

Whatever you do, make sure that no glue gets on the threads - it would REALLY suck to do all that work and wind up with a neck with a rod that doesn't function. Believe me - I learned that one the hard way. This is where wax might come in handy.

Just an afterthought - One way to use wax effectively (assuming you just can't stand the idea of using tubing of some sort) would be to simply coat the entire rod with wax - like, get a cake of beeswax or paraffin, and melt the surface with a lighter or heat gun, and rub it all over the rod. You could maybe even put a light coat of wax on the bottom of your wood fillet for good measure - again being sure to not get wax on your gluing surfaces (maybe use tape to protect the sides of the fillet from the wax). Bear in mind that I've not tried this - I'm merely thinking out loud, but it all seems to make sense. I'm just not sure how practical it is, or if you could do all this without inadvertently getting wax on your gluing surfaces.

Could you please elaborate on your use of felt? I've not heard of this, and I'm not exactly understanding your description of the process.

My thought was to pack the lower channel (3/16") with wax and then scoop out the excess once the rod is in place. The upper channel (1/4") would be free of wax and that's where the fillet strip would go. And BECAUSE wax and glue don't do well together, I figured this would work to my benefit. Make any sense?

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

How would you avoid getting wax all over the walls of the channel (including the upper 1/4")? It seems to me that you'll make a mess with the wax, and the fillet will never stick - unless I'm missing something...

I didn't end up doing that after all. I did coat the rod in wax. When I glued the fillet I used a glue brush to spread it evenly and wiped the excess off of the bottom of the strip before installing it. I also put a few dabs of caulk along the length of the rod. We'll see how it goes. I'm used to tearing things apart. I always come out better for it in the end.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

For an anchor, you can simply put a right angle bend in the rod and stick it in a hole. Then making the rod is reduced to tapping on end and bending the other....about 2 minutes worth of work.

Well... So far so good. The fillet hasn't pulled out but the rod pulls smoothly through the channel. I loosened it this morning and took a flathead screwdriver and pulled the anchor toward the heel and it moved fine. I then tightened the nut at the headstock and it pulled the other way. I assume that means it didn't bind with the glue. I also assume that means it should work.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."