Official Luthiers Forum!

   Hello all. Let me first appologize for the nature of this thread. Now, I was reading about Hide Glue today (on the web) I came upon an interesting article by a man (I forget who at the moment) who claimed that you could extend the open working time of hide glue by urinating in it. He claims that this is/was and old trade secret and that many cabinet makers used this method.
   Now I usually don't believe everything I read, but this gentleman was extremely knowledgeable about hide glue and it's properties and applications...
   So I guess I'm wondering if any of you know of this 'trade secret'? Notice that I dindn't ask if anyone has ever tried it. Comments anyone?

Alain Desforges (opening up a can of worms...)

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Look up extending the working time with Urea. I believe it also results in a slightly weaker glue joint, but don't quote me on that.

First I've heard the suggestion you actually take a wizz in it, though...

I believe that the Franklin liquid hide glue has urea as it's retarder.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

The possibilities for humor here are too numerous to even know where to begin!

This is really p*$%#ng me off!

Steve

That's true about the urea. I've heard it's not a good glue for instrument building, but I don't know if they were informed opinions or not.

It does handle differently than hot hide glue, but I've not done any testing

I'll guess Tim McNight has some experience....

Steve, ... I know!!!!

This gentleman did mention urea as well as heating up the work piece... Like I said, he was all over hide glue... He sure seemed to know his stuff.

   Hmmm.. urea... urine.... is there a link here?

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

I would say it probably would work better with the mornin' pee but it'd be a bit too dark, maybe the afternoon one and it would be all light and fantapiss!



That button s'gonna make me do it in my pants!Serge Poirier38748.7081944444

It is not a good glue for seams It would be ok for non stressed surface binding. but the urea does make it weeker and there is a lot of urea in the liquid hide glue by titebond. That said I have known some dulsimer builders that use it and know that StewMac sells it as an instrument glue. but I would not use it on any stressed joint.MichaelP38748.7071412037

Let's wait for the Harvard people to answer that one!!!!

Serge, come on budy, one more and you're at 500.... Let me say 'Congradulations in advance'!!!

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

501 Thanks everyone Serge Poirier38748.7131481481

Arrgghhh..... You did it before I had a chance to post.... Cheers my good man!

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Again, bypassing the obvious jokes, I'm not sure you'd want to have the
hide glue warming in the pot along with urine. Hot hide glue isn't my
favorite odor and adding my own urine to it probably won't make it any
more attractive. Even if it works, I'd not likely try it. As someone above
mentioned, keeping the pieces to be glued warm and thinning the glue
with water a bit should extend the open time.
Craig

Craig, that is a sobering thought... I wasn't really thinking about trying it out. I was just wondering if anyone had heard of it. I've read a lot about hide glue and this was my first time hearing of it... I'll probably add a touch more water, that's all....

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

[QUOTE=Terry Stowell] That's true about the urea. I've heard it's not a good glue for instrument building, but I don't know if they were informed opinions or not.

It does handle differently than hot hide glue, but I've not done any testing

I'll guess Tim McNight has some experience....[/QUOTE]

Sorry Terry but I use the pee pot and not the glue pot

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Wait a minute, you mean NOBODY uses urine in their repairs, that was why I got into this business I mean no, I never use urine Oh dang I've said too much
Evan

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http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

    Evan, talk about leaving a bit of DNA behind!!!

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Bruce, is that smile for admitting something ?

AWRIGHT, I'm out of here. Sheesh

I've read about adding certain fertilizers containing urea to HHG.

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

Not sure if it has anything to do with acting as a retarder but urea is also used in a rather antiquainted type of compressed air dryer called a deliquescent dryer. The urea combined with residual water in the air stream and precipitated downstream. Effective but messy.

I wonder if its affinity for water is the key?

Steve

Guys, I do it all the time...use HHG with Urea that is. I talked to the guy that makes Old Brown Glue, and he uses it for everything. He said basically it is a formulation of urine and other additives. He says some violin builders use his glue. I have used it on my fretboard extension and bridge, and it has been holding for 8 months so far with no problems. I even removed my bridge and it is working just fine.

My next experiment will be to start using fish glue for the whole instrument. One of guys in the CO luthiers group says he uses it for everything on his classical guitars. He says it has all the properties of HHG, but does not need to be heated. He's been building for years, and studied under the a very famous spanish guitar builder who's name escapes me at the moment. Anyway, I'll let you know how it goes. Here is a link to the old brown glue.
Tracy

I'm still a quite leery of using hide glue with urea, but I've been using fish
glue for years now and absolutely love it. I'm quite amazed that it hasn't
gained more popularity. I buy it by the gallon direct from the
manufacturer, and I probably use it in at least 90% of my wood joints
now. It's very existance makes the whole idea of adding urea to hide glue
a rather moot point to me.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Tracy,

The famous spanish builder is probably Jose Romanillos, he is know to use fish glue. Fish glue has been used for many years to build instruments, but I guess the question is, will it 'hold up' to the stress of SS guitars. Please keep us updated.

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.