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Hi All

I am just setting up to use hide from a small plastic glue bottle as discussed, I have a question for those of you that use this method, when glueing the bracing do you just run a bead large enough to produce squeeze out and clamp? or do you run a bead and then spread the glue ? if so what do you use ?

Here's my method...not that it's the best, just what has worked for me for braces:

...I have a small plastic cup with HHG clamped to the side of my heated water so that it is halfway submerged in 140* water
...Microwave the brace for 15 seconds to get it warm
.. apply glue with a stiff brush (a disposable flux brush with half its bristles trimmed off)
...carefully place the brace on the pre-drawn lines and slightly slide it until the glue starts to bite and not slip anymore
...clamp it with gobars
...one clamped brace takes well under 30 seconds from the time glue was applied.
...wait 5-10 minutes and clean squeezeout.
I store glue in the small plastic bottles but I use the applicator tips for applying glue only on the kerfed liners. All other application is made with the stiff 1/2" brush

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I have read about a couple of warnings regarding HHG. Don't know if they're true or not, but something to think about.
One is to NOT spread HHG with bare fingers because the oils and acids in fingertips contaminates the glue and makes a bad joint. The other is to not use a brush with a metal ferrule holding the bristels, or at least not allow the metal to contact the HHG, as the metal reacts and contaminates the glue.

One thing I use when glueing with HHG is an electric food warming tray that's about 10" by 20", bought for $5 at a thrift shop. Keep it right next to my bench. I lay my braces on it 5-10 minutes for warm up, and it's got a 'hot spot' on it that will keep a glass jar of glue hot enough to work with. All within 'arms reach'.

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

I never spread it with anything but the tip of the bottle itself. But even that I don't do often,.

As you'll see right away when you start to use it, all you need to do is run a bead down the brace, and clamp it right away. It spreads itself just nicely. n not time, yuo'll get the hang of just what size bead you need for minimal squeeze out, and full coverage. At first, use more than you expect, then cut back a bit on each brace until yuo see for yourself how much is enough.

Or practice on brace-size scraps...

About the only place I'll spread it with the tip of the bottle, is the bridge, and the end and neck blocks.

You will love the way it cleans up too. As soon as it cools, scrape the squeeze out off and it just balls up and comes off clean.

Mario do you glue your back and sides on with HHG? If so than I definately have to water down my glue to get more time to do that.

Shane

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Canada

Thanks Everyone

Mario

I read mention of using a bolt as a weight and to conduct heat in the bottle, I believe this was one of your ideas ? Do you just put the bolt in the bottom of the bottle ?


John

What do you use to scrape with ?

JJ

I read in another post that you double bag your glue when freezing ? Are these just regular plastic bags you use ?

Sorry for all the questionsRussellR38748.8609143519

Oh ya,

Again here is the 'plastic bottle' I use!



Another question Mario, do you glue the fretboard down with this stuff also? I just find that I don't have enough open time for any size of a glue up.

I remain...ShaneShane Neifer38748.8622800926

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Canada

Shane

Their was a post recently, I think Dave started it as he was asking some stuff on hide, and Mario described his procedure for gluing the rims, Let me see if I can find it and I'll put a link on.

Shane here is Marios post

[QUOTE=Mario] Me, I use the go-bar deck. Let's say I'm about the glue the back to the rim.

I set the dish on the deck. Line it with some paper for padding(about ten sheets of newsprint). Lay the back down on this, and then test drop the rim set on it, and add a few go0-bars to snug it. Just 4-6 bars for now. I'll now shut the shop lights, and with a flashlight inside the "body", I'll shoot light at teh edge all the way aorund, to be positive that we have a dead-on perfect fit. Once satisfied of the fit, I'll trun the lights back on, make a couple index marks inside from the linings to the back, for future reference, and gently lift the rim set off the back. The back remains in the dish.

Set the rim set nect to the dish, and take the hair dryer to the surface. About 1-1/2 minute's worth of going 'round and 'round gets it nice and warm. Now, I reach formy glue bottle, which is sitting in the water bath, right next to all of this(see a pattern? Everything is right there, with me; I could glue my feet to the floor, and still be able to do this). I now run a bead of glue all around the rim; this takes, oh, ten seconds. While running the bead, I slopped a bit extra at the blocks. No need to spread this stuff! just run the bead.

Drop the bottle(no need to be nice, now, just drop the thing), and grab the rim set, flip it over quickly, and drop it on the back. Line it up to the index marks I drew in a few minutes before, and press down on the rim with my body weight, just a bit, to set the glue. Now, quickly grab the go bars which are laid out right there(again, be prepared), and start seting them, starting with two at each block, then staggering them around the rim.

Total time, under a minute, and with the warmed edge, we have made it with time to spare.

Now, take you time, and using a brush dipped in the hot water, start cleaning up the squeeze-out. Brush in one hand, hair dryer in the other, drying the edge where you just washed the glue from. This step is important! You will use lots pof water to clean it up, so keep the hair dryer going.

For the top, I'm much more careful with how big the bead will be, and I've never had much cleaning up to do. and if you do find a run or something a couple days down the road, a rag dipped in boikling water will clean it nicely, followed again by the hair dryer to dry it right away.

Same steps for the top, but I now will add a 1/4" plywood 'donut' to protect the top from the go bars. Otherwise, same-same...


And the rim set is always in the form throught all of this.

You can practice this by doing dry runs a few times. I still do a couple dry runs each time, myself.

The flashlight stage is quite revealing, also. I'm still surprised how many times I think my brace-to-rim fit was fine, only to see that I needed to file a bit on two or three notches.
[/QUOTE]

Russell...I double bag with what's called "freezer bags" here in the U.S. I believe the only difference from regular polyethylene bags is that they are thicker. The idea is to protect from freezer burn caused by air in contact with the product. The extra layers slow down air permeation in and water vapor permeating out. I use the same product for feezing meat as well. It may be overkill... I never tested without the bags...and I never have had freezer burn.

Do some trials on scrap, Russell. I'm sure once you practice a few times you'll get the feel for how to handle HHG. Try wiping the squeezeout immediately, after 10 minutes and after 1 hour. You'll soon recognize the right time to clean up. I use a popsicle stick sharpened on one end or the end of a 6 inch pocket scale to scrape, and ball up the glue boogers.

Fretboard...I made a mistake on #1 by gluing the FB with HHG. The water in HHG conspires to bend and warp the neck wood and left me with a slight bow. I since use epoxy...no water. Thanks, Mario!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

JJ

Many thanks, I have glue and bottles at the ready, I'm just waiting for my heater to arrive. I will do some practice runs to work a system out.

Just out of interest the hot pots that you guys use, what are they used for normally ? We don't seem to have them over hear, I have sorted out an alternative.

Here is a link to the handy little bottles that I use:

Squeeze Bottles

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Russell,
I never use anything to spread HHG. I actually apply it to the top directly, then just smash the brace down in place and hold for about 3 seconds, then start to add my go bars. In just 3 seconds, it does not move at all. I really don't care much about the squeeze out, because after about 5 mins when it is completely gelled, I then use a dull scraper blade and run it along the side of the brace, then along the top, then just peel the squeeze out off. It leaves a small stain, but it can be scraped clean very easily. Works for me. Give it a try!
Tracy

I got a haircut today. The gal gave me one neutralizer bottle with a trim off nipple tip on it. It's about 1 1/2 inches in diameter and 4 1/2 inches tall including the spout. She said she can get me three or four a week and will save me a dozen. I was pretty happy.

The haircut wasn't bad either!

Hey Bruce, I color my wife's hair and save those bottles too! They are absolutely perfect for hide glue applications. Hey, did you notice I'm grizzled now?
Tracy

Tracy you are looking a bit grizzled there. That's what happens when you run a side bender while standing in a puddle of water! Or is that Sizzled?

PS I followed Tim's link, that company has a free catalog online, so I ordered it just as a reference. Plus it has the little nozzle bottles with a red cap, one ounce would be perfect, 60 cents each. And you don't even have to get a haircut.Dickey38749.0017361111

Welcome to the club Tracy!

Serge

Hey Guys, our own guitarjigs.com has the same bottles at the same prices, 2oz bottle for $0.60 (after 3, $0.70 each before 3). Lets try and support the sponsors here.

Of course, free is good, unless you never get a hair cut. Rod True38749.0062152778

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