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I am looking for some advice here. I have decided to try using cloth tape to reinforce the sides of a guitar. Since I could not find lenin (nor mcCartney either ho ho) I decided to follow Al Caruths' example and use the cotton/polyester tape. I did some test strips on an set of old busted zircote sides . On some tape samples I rubbed in LMI white glue, on some I rubbed in hot hide glue, and on my most successful taping session I put the cloth in a small jar of hot hide glue till it was saturated then pulled it out, layed it across the sides and "squeegeed" it smooth with a damp paper towel. However it is done, it makes a mess, but the damp paper towel trick seemed to clean things up better than the credit card or rubber squeegee. After they dried, I pulled the strips off the sides and tried to notice which stuck the best, which pulled of the most wood fibers, etc. etc. It seems that the hide glue was the most firmly attached, but LMI white came in a close second.

Such a seemingly simple thing turned into such a hassle. I am wondering what steps those who do this regularly take.

TIA
John

John

First of all I don't use tape so have no direct experience. I did have a thought though how about if you masked you location either side apllied your tape and then removed the masking tape ?

Russ

John

I just did my first body using tape. I used cott/poly stuff like yourself. For glue I used titebond. I start by cutting the piece to length. Then I applied the glue to one side of the tape and rubbed off the extra with my finger. Flipped it over then did the same thing on the other side. Then I stuck it in place. It seemed to work well for me and I found it a lot easier than doing wooden braces. I know a lot of guys use the hide glue for this but I thought that would be a hassle so I didn't give it a try.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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Russell
   That is a good idea! I should have thought of that. In fact, a person could do that with any kind of brace to aide cleanup. HMmmmmm

   Josh
    That is the way I did the LMI white glue. It worked pretty well and was the least messy of the trials.

   The idea of using tape came, in part, from a desire to extend the side reinforcement all the way across the sides through the lining, and finding a relatively easy way to do that without notching the lining or putting pieces of lining between side braces. This lining is going to go right over the tape.

John Kinnaird38750.3418171296

I use hem bias tape on all of my guitars (also inspired by Al). Position the rim set on it side. Mark the location with a pencil and combination square. Pour some Elmers wood glue into a plasitic lid, use a stiff 1/2" acid brush and paint a strip of glue on the side next to the drawn line. Lay the tape onto the glue and take the end of the brush bristles and dab the tape into the glue (like a vertical sewing machine sort of action) which forces glue up through the cloth then a couple of long brush strokes to smooth the surface glue out. Take a "hot" damp rag and wipe the excess glue from the sides. Smooth the glue on the surface of the tape with my finger and move on to the next strip.

Leave the tape extend 1/4" or so past the edges of the rim and trim with a razor blade after it is dry. Scuff sand with 220 after it's dry. Glue on linigs. Paint exposed glue surface with one coat of shellac.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

I do things much like Tim does, only I use hide glue. It goes on fine with the acid brush, and as long as I "paint" the glue on the strip of cloth it looks ok and keeps most of the mess under control.

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Mark Swanson
Swanson Guitars
http://www.MarkSwansonMusic.com

I, too, use bias tape thanks to Al. I have been using that method for about
two years. My procedure is almost exactly what Tim's is EXCEPT I use hot
hide glue. I simple dip the tape into the hide glue jar until saturated, place in
position and wipe it off thoroughly. It may look messy as you do it but when
it dries it is very easy to clean up. The linings run right over the tape during
their installation.

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

Sounds good guys. Thanks for the info.

I wound up doing what Sylvan did, just cooking the bias tape in the hot hide glue and then smoothing it out on the side.

I only used two layers of tape, one full layer on top, and two half layers folded underneath to keep a tidy edge to the tape. What do you guys do about tape thickness?

I open the tape up and iron it flat so it is about 3/4" wide. It is much thinner when used in a single layer and not folded over. You may have a hump where your linings lay over the tape if you leave it folded.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Yes, I iron it flat too. It's strong and the lining goes over it nicely.

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Mark Swanson
Swanson Guitars
http://www.MarkSwansonMusic.com

I did some tests four or five yeas ago, and found that the cotton-poly tape with hide glue was better able to resist force on the side than either the same tape with Titebond or nylon tape with either Titebond or hide glue. The nylon tape was so strong, and glued so badly, that the glue line broke long before the tape did. Sometimes the Titebond joints would fail before the tape broke. So it's hot hide glue for me.

I use a soft brush to paint a line of glue on the side, lay the strip of tape, cut a little long, into it, and brush more glue over the top to wet it out. Then I wipe the excess off with a dry paper towel. No mess, no fuss.

IMO, the weak link in this over the long term is the glue, which will deteriorate when exposed to air. I've seen too many old mandolins with the paper faling off the inside of the bowl to trust it for any length of time. I put a few coats of shellac on the exposed parts of the tape after the liners go over the ends, to help keep air away from the glue. I'll let you know in a hundred years or so whether it worked....

Alan
Did you ever test or use linen? That is the traditional tape used is it not? My gut feeling is that it is not as strong as cotton/poly.
With the cotton/poly did you use just a single layer or did you double over the tape to hide the edges of the threads?

I use tae and hide glue. I cut the tape and then pour the glue out of the bottle (hair dye botles) onto the tape, rub it into the weave and put it on. I have glue on my fingers but no clean up is needed on the guitar side.

I've never tried linen. Martin used to use linen twill tape, I think, and that would be neater than the bias stuff, as it has a selveged edge. I don't guess the linen would be nticably weaker; one could always test it out, of course.