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Greetings all.
I`m making pretty good progress on my OM first build and am getting ready to start closing her up. I was talking to a guy from the area who plays shows quite a bit and really seems to know building and playing. I told him how I had used solid linings and popcicle braces, and he said that although it may look good and all, most players are gonna hot rod them as soon as they get to know the guitar, starting out by shaving down popcicle braces and anything else they can think of to get better sound out of it. Basically, what I`m asking is should I try to reduce some mass and weight before I close it up?
Easier to do it now!

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

hi there,

i would say leave it alone....... its your first build, and there is no way this guy in your area can tell you how the guitar will sound just from looking at it, in fact i dont think anyone can, building is a process of empirical development...... in other words, you build a guitar, see how it sounds, build another, change something....until eventually after a number of instruments you start to get a feel for how you can tailor the magical process to acheive the goal that you or your customer have set,


thats my 2 pence worth

paddy

Leave it. I've never heard of people hot-rodding by shaving down side braces and linings, really; the popsicle brace that often gets left out is the one on the soundboard, above the upper transverse brace. Also, the vast majority of players? Never hot-rod their instruments (and, well, if they void the warranty doing it, that's hardly their problem.)

The linings and side strips look very, nice, solid, good workmanship. However, both blocks (head and tail) look a bit on the huge side to me; 1/2"-5/8" thick on the tailblock is not uncommon (using ply, usually; my first has a solid 1" thick, and I put a 'shelf' on my headblock, so the main body of the heel block was about 1"-1.3" (off the top of my head...can't find my building log right now).

i would also agree with mattia about the heel and tail blocks, they are very big....... but never mind now, remember next time!!

G'day,
        Really nice neat work! . I'd go along with Mattia on this too . If you are unable to reduce the thickness of the tail block , at least put a chamfer on the top of it ,and leave an amount about the thickness of your linings . As it is ,it looks like it's going to restrict the soundboards freedom . Not such an important issue at the headblock , and IMHO I would leave it alone .

Regards KiwiCraig

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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Co SEE Fuss, hey it looks great. The side braces are plenty large, and could be downsized on future guitars. And you may not need quite so many. This would make an interesing POLL, how many?

Fantastic work, you are on your way to....

Stardom!

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I have done a bunch of fine tuning of guitars for performers and never been ask more less attempted to thin linings or side braces. I would not think the effect would be noticeable as the linings are basically only the flange that the diaphragms attach to, And the sides are not very active. I am not sure your friend know as much as he may think on the structure and how it works.

I think you guys are right by saying to go ahead with it. After mulling it over some more, I`ve decided to shave some off the head and tail blocks (no need for that much meat). I guess I`ll know when I get there, huh?

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Remember also, that your the boss of this endeavour and that we're here for full support!

Serge

This is slightly ot but Mario P. doubles his linings and thinks that makes a very real difference. I have read some time ago that another guy calimed to get a different sound with different linings. So maybe linings do make a little difference.

John, I read the same thing about doubling the linings, but my take on it was structure more than sound. I do really tend to overbuild. You can tell by my heelblock! Man, why did I do that?

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

The only thing I would do is maybe drill some holes from the top of the neck and tail blocks to loose some weight and then plug them shut with a spruce plug not to loose any gluing surface. As far as the braces go....leave them! I have never heard of anyone shaving them after getting a new guitar! Besides that you did a pretty good job with them!

BTW....keep up the good word....she looks pretty nice!peterm38757.8810532407

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

whilst the severak posters above have commented on the somewhat over engineered blocks, no one has mentioned the not very popciclelike braces.

they are so called because they should be about the size of popcicle sticks in width and thickness. these seem to be about 2-3 times that size. they could easily stand some reduction as well.

and looking at the braces, my not very good eyes are telling me that they are a bit thicker than what might considered "normal" on a body of this size. how thick are they and what is the cross sectional profile like?

the tendency toward building heavier than necessary is something i think most builders go through at first; no one wants their box to fold up like a portable picnic table. i know my first few efforts were way too heavy.

that being said, the very clean workmanship is nice to see. and unnecessary wood can usually be removed. it's a bit more difficult to put it back after you discover, too late, that it was needed...

Michael, The popcicle braces are one of my main concerns right now. Their thickness is .125", and width is 7/16". As more time goes by while I`m working on the rest of things, the more I`m determined to rework the binding, braces, and blocks down to a more appropriate size. Gee, I could have seen this coming. Oh, that`s right, I did!

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

I dunno; considering the number of builders who build with truly massive sides (laminated, very, very thick, stiff, unyielding), and considering the minimal amount of weight you'd save by trimming them down, I'd just leave the popsicle braces alone.

The side reinforcements in my guitars have been made from 5mm square (a bit under 1/4") spruce braces, peaked and carved, 6 per side. I'll be downsizing them slightly for the next few, but they're hardly adding huge gobs of weight.

I wouldn't touch the braces either....its your first...leave it alone. its not worth the trouble and you may end up doing some damage (don't ask me how I know!) Its better to have a neat job for the first than having a bunch of unwanted mishaps!

Like i said before:The only thing I would do is maybe drill some holes from the top of the neck and tail blocks to loose some weight and then plug them shut with a spruce plug not to loose any gluing surface.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

The end block looks really thick, or is that an illusion?

[QUOTE=Cocephus] he said that although it may look good and all, most players are gonna hot rod them as soon as they get to know the guitar[/QUOTE]

Well, I guess you know who NOT to sell it to!

That's really nice work, and sure, you could take some of the weight off if you want to. The back isn't attached yet, is it? Just prop up the sides and take a block plane to those tail and head blocks until you reach a thickness that looks good to you. Many fine builders believe that stiff sides add to the responsiveness of the top and back, so I'd leave the linings and side braces as they are. As for the back braces--it's your call. It looks like your workmanship is going to guarantee that you're NOT going to end up with anything other than a good-sounding guitar, in any case!

I agree with Mattia and Peter, it looks great and it will sound great, learning lutherie is already a lot of information to sink in and i saw my first build as a learning tool more than focussing on a top notch guitar and i'm sure it will pay off in the long run. Your workmanship is great, i'd keep it that way!

Serge

Hey, my first few guitars were really overbuilt. I have since lightened everything considerably. It’s a learning thing. I would finish this first one and then show it to a few builders and get there advice on what improvements you could make. Then make those changes on your next builds after. Start by taking the good advice you are receiving here.

One of my first customers recently brought back #3 and had me shave down some of the braces on the top. It was a tricky job which I pulled off using a dremel flexshaft and sanding attachment. Before I did the braces he had me cut a side port into the guitar which helped me to see what I was doing. The guitar sounded good before, but after the side port addition and the brace shave it sounded a lot better (or so I'm told by the customer). I guess I'm saying don't freak out over your first build. Your workmanship looks really good and you should end up with a good sounding guitar. But hopefully the next 2 or 3 will be even better.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

You guys are great! I really didn`t expect so many responses on this topic. Believe me, you guys are really making me believe there might be a future in this endeavor.
I`ve come to the conclusion that I`ll get some meat off those blocks, and shave a slight taper onto the linings just to dress it up (as if it needs it).
Carlton, you`re right about who not to sell to, but don`t quite a few customers return later on wanting a little shave here or a tweak there? I`m just wondering what I might expect to see in the future. Also, you think the back braces should go a little thinner? I`d like to know before I get ready to button up, which won`t be long, as I`ve got to shape the braces and voice my top tonight. Then double check, double check, double check...

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Quick note: Don't sell your first. Just...don't. Keep it.

Coe, i totaly agree with Mattia, even if you were to succeed to get a perfect # 1, this is the most important notebook you have as a testament of your successes and failures, when you'll be looking at it 10-20 years from now, it will still give you information on what or what not to do and good memories of your first baby steps! Please keep her!

SergeSerge Poirier38759.2882175926

While I'll admit that even to this greenhorn's eye the blocks seemed a bit gargantuan , I also thought it looked spectacular and would only be concerned with contact to the top and leave the rest alone!

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DES - Shepherd, MI