Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:03 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:23 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada
Here's my shot at doing Semi-Hemispherical fret ends. Never done it before but I didn't think it would be to difficult.

So, this is the first time I tried semi-hemisperical fret ends. Never seen a tutorial on this and wasn’t going to pay $25 to Sylvan Wells to see his method, so I came up with my own way. Actually, I’ve had this idea in my head for a couple years now, just never tried it.

I ensure that the fretboard is level before fretting (one reason for waiting till it’s attached to the body) and in this case, I had no sanding to do, sweet!

Ok, so I protect the upper bout area of the guitar and rest the neck on a bag of sand I have.

Image

I then radius my fretwire, homemade radius thing too (of course)

Image

I then pre-cut my fretwire for each fret and put it in a holder (no picture sorry).
I started at the soundhole end of the fretboard incase I cut one of the frets to short, I can use it on the next one up ;)
First thing I do is undercut the fretwire for the binding. I have the Stew Mack fret tang nipper and It works perfect for me.

Image

I then held the fret in the slot and marked the edge of the fretboard on the fret with a sharpie I chiseled to a fine point (I need one of those fine point sharpies in the shop).

Image

Then I take it to the jig I made ;)
It’s a block of hardwood, with a grove cut for the fret tang and a channel for a fret file. The holding face is also radiused to about 10" so the fretwire doesn't bend back straight/flat. Here’s a bunch of pictures.

Image
The thin board along the front is shimmed 0.020” (veneer) on the end held in the vise. This allows the fret to slide up into the groove and then holds the fret tight with the screw on the left.

Image

I’ve made a pencil mark where the fret needs to be ground round (this was done by trial and error to get the location right), so I align the sharpie mark to the pencil mark.
I then run the fret file over the fret to round it, also tilting the fret file down to get a curve to the top of the fret end.

Image

Image

I then pull the fret out and do a quick little touch up with the file free hand to make it look round and even.

Image

Then I check it on the fretboard to make sure the other end is marked right, then I repeat for the other end. I’ll sneak up on it, checking it on the fretboard to make sure it looks right. I only want a couple 0.001” offset from the edge of the fretboard. If it looks like it’s offset too much, I’ll save it for the next slot. Then I hammer them in and move on to the next one.

Image

Once they are all done, I check the board for level and as has been the case in many of my last boards, there is a slight back bow from fretting (about 1/64”). I don’t mind this as I know the neck will pull forward with the strings so I don’t need to level the frets.

That's it. Give it a shot, you'll love the results.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson



These users thanked the author Rod True for the post (total 2): pdolan (Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:26 pm) • Durero (Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:10 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:17 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:11 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: Spokane, Washington
First name: Pat
Last Name: Foster
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Nice toot, Rod. Thanks!

Pat

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:53 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 1065
First name: Rob
Last Name: McDougall
City: Cochrane
State: Alberta
Very timely post as I had planned to do this soon on my bubinga build.

Thanks!!!!

Rob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:14 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:31 pm
Posts: 1877
First name: Darryl
Last Name: Young
State: AR
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Very nice Rod! I'll have to remember this trick when I try a bound fretboard.

On this topic, I just read in Somogyi's book that he thinks the frets even on an unbound fretboard should have the semi-hemispherical treatment instead of filed at a 30 deg angle to help keep the outside strings from slipping off the fretboard when fretted. Seems this would be a function of how close the outside strings are to the edge of the fretboard and the taper used. Any thoughts on this? I've never noticed a problem with this except on my electric, USA made Hammer Gold top.........the high E easily slides off the fretboard if you have just a bit of downward pressure and it's annoying.

_________________
Formerly known as Adaboy.......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:40 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada
I too have Ervin's books and read that. I am finding that Ervin is very opinionated about what a proper guitar should look like and he's more than entitled to it, but it is only one man's opinion. Me, I say make em how you like em.

There are millions of guitars out there that have beveled fret ends and most of them play just fine for the average player.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:41 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:46 pm
Posts: 527
First name: Mark
Last Name: McLean
City: Sydney
State: New South Wales
Zip/Postal Code: 2145
Country: Australia
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi Rod
I had just been ogling this guitar over on the anzlf, and noted the fret dressing (among other attributes of this fine instrument). Thanks for the tutorial on the method. I will definitely be giving it a try on my next build.
Best wishes
Mark McLean


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:19 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 213
Location: Meredosia, IL 62665
Rod,

thanks for the toot. I was looking through some older guild books for this info just the other evening. What I found was much the same method. However, before tapping them in, he buffed the ends on a wheel with compound. I'm going to try it on this build, too.

Danny R. Little


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:36 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:40 pm
Posts: 763
Location: United States
That's way slicker than what I was planning. Thanks for sharing.

Mike

_________________
Mike Lindstrom


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:23 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:35 pm
Posts: 7
First name: Mike
Last Name: Harwood
City: Savoy
State: Ma
Zip/Postal Code: 01256
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks Rod. This is way easier than how I did mine. I'll have to make one of these handy dandy time saving jigs.

MikeH

_________________
Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:32 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:42 am
Posts: 564
Location: United States
First name: Stephen
Last Name: Ziegenfuss
City: Jackson
State: MI
Zip/Postal Code: 49203
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Rod,

The one question I have always had with semi-hemi frets is how do they look when sighting down the FB? With your first guitar, were you able to hold to a line well enough that it is not glaring when you look at it?

I have always wanted to try this, and this mehtod looks great....THANKS!

_________________
www.ziegenfussguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:31 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada
Ziegenfuss wrote:
Rod,

The one question I have always had with semi-hemi frets is how do they look when sighting down the FB? With your first guitar, were you able to hold to a line well enough that it is not glaring when you look at it?

I have always wanted to try this, and this mehtod looks great....THANKS!


I have one fret that is about 0.010"-0.015" shorter (off the fretboard edge) than all the others and it's the third last fret. It's noticable when sighting down the fretboard on the bass side. The treble side is even all the way along as this was the reference side. I should have pulled that one fret and made a new one and I think I'll do that when I get the guitar back for it's 3 month check up (just like new borns get their 3 month look over by the Dr. right ;) ).

It takes time that's for sure, but I think the look and feel is well worth it. I really liked it anyway.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:55 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:37 am
Posts: 697
First name: Murray
Last Name: MacLeod
City: Edinburgh
Country: UK
Ziegenfuss wrote:
The one question I have always had with semi-hemi frets is how do they look when sighting down the FB? With your first guitar, were you able to hold to a line well enough that it is not glaring when you look at it?

That, unquestionably, is the one thing that sound engineers and audiences are going to seize on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:53 pm 
Online
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5821
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Dang! That looks slick.
I'll have to try it next time I refret something.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:30 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:21 am
Posts: 71
City: Calgary
State: Alberta
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Two great ideas in one post by Rod True:
Quote:
I started at the soundhole end of the fretboard incase I cut one of the frets to short, I can use it on the next one up


And the beanbag neck support made out of an old pant leg is brilliant. You even left handles on each end! I was planning to improve the neck support I've been using by building a padded mortise and tenon contraption out of 8/4 maple, but the bean bag is much soooo much better.

Thanks Rod. bliss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:14 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 3031
First name: Tony
Last Name: C
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
This is the most ingenious way I have seen to do this. Amazing. So simple and so effective.

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:21 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:43 am
Posts: 1326
Location: chicagoland, illinois
City: chicagoland
State: illinois
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
...i wouldn't necessarily call it "so simple", but i can't think of another way. but, for sizing purposes, how about:
a scale diagram of the neck (top view) profile, on paper, and also corresponding fret slots. i'd think you should be able to get each fret awfully close that way, and you could even "compensate" the drawing an mm or two wider to account for radius....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:29 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 3031
First name: Tony
Last Name: C
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Don't kill my buzz nyazzip!

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC



These users thanked the author Tony_in_NYC for the post: nyazzip (Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:59 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:01 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 1213
Location: Raleigh, NC
First name: Ringo
I hate to be a wet blanket, but I've played some guitars with these fret ends and they really feel weird and uncomfortable to me. They look nice and no doubt showcase some great craftsmanship, but IMO in the end they seem a solution in search of a problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:07 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada
James Ringelspaugh wrote:
I hate to be a wet blanket, but I've played some guitars with these fret ends and they really feel weird and uncomfortable to me. They look nice and no doubt showcase some great craftsmanship, but IMO in the end they seem a solution in search of a problem.


That's ok, not everyone likes black cars, or florentine cutaways, or EVO gold fretwire, or Aunt Jemima pancakes (ok, maybe everyone does like Aunt Jemima pancakes....)

I like the semi-hemi fret ends and that's what matters to me :)

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:28 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 1449
First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
City: Chestertown
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I like em too and have been doing them after installation. This system looks good. How about a knife cut at the proper length instead of a marker - no matter how sharp it still isn't an accurate line (and they don't stay sharp for long).

Good jig

Ed



These users thanked the author Ruby50 for the post: Rod True (Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:26 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:27 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada
Great idea Ed!!

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com