Official Luthiers Forum!

Ron, i saw a picture of your drum sander which seems to be really well made BTW. The nice thing about home made ones is that you can decide on the size of the drum,motor and pulleys and they're quite easy to make and besides, you save a load of money! You can either build a hardwood frame or weld one.

Kim, if you were to say you wanted to build yourself a bandsaw, i would try to discourage you, i've tried and it was really too hard to achieve, not enough information out there unless you were a machinist. But a drum sander ? Man, if i could do it, believe me, you certainly can, you don't really need a power feed at first, you can feed by hand as long as you have side guards, a dust collection port over the drum that will hide the pulley, belt and pillow block bearings so nothing from your body comes in contact with those parts.

My motor is a 1/2 hp and does 1725 which is plenty for starters, my drum is 3" black ABS PIPE. if you have any questions, PM me and i'll be glad to tell you more about it!

Here's a couple of pics









cheers

Serge

[QUOTE=terken] Over on the Acoustic Guitar forum a while back Sylvan
indicated some problems with his Woodmaster. ( Rick turner was more
positive) I don't think he liked the velcro backed paper.
Terry Kennedy[/QUOTE]

Terry,
Sylvan might have had other problems with the woodmaster but the
velcro backing is a benefit not a deterrent. If you pass wood thru a
Performax with fine grit you sometimes will end up with sanding lines or
indentations (for lack of a better term). The velcro acts as a few
thousandths of an inch buffer. In other words, you get a wide-belt (with
platen) quality surface. With any new machine, you have to get a feel for
it - but all you have to do is do a couple of passes at the end and you are
done.

I want to reinforce the fact that the Woodmaster is not a wide-belt. There
are several benefits to a wide-belt - primarily the bigger sanding surface
and bigger motor. However, I see it as the ideal machine for the luthier. I
just think that unless you are building more than a hundred guitars a year
you won't realize any significant timesavings, especially to warrant the
space, electrical requirements, and cost of the wide-belt.

I can literally sand the top/back/sides all in a couple minutes on this
thing. I like to think of it is an industrial quality drum sander. It is
certainly worth considering.

SimonF38762.0753356482

[QUOTE=Colin S] I've got to agree with Tom, I find that a well sharpened safeT planer works on any wood, if care is taken not to take too big a bite with it and a good table, fence and hold-down are used.

Colin[/QUOTE]

Colin, what sort of hold-down do you use - what keeps a wide back or top that might have a bit of warp in it flat on the table as it passes under the safetT planer?

Thanks.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I bought a 16-32 and have been happy with it. Sure you have to take your time with it, but I it does a fine job. I am currently turning out about 1 1/2 guitars a month and it is keeping up to the workload very nicely. Some day I would like to go with something bigger, but I currently don't have the space or cash. I plan on using my 16-32 for many years to come. One nice thing about a smaller machine is that paper costs are cheaper. I buy 50 foot roles of paper and cut my own belts.

So I wouldn't overlook the 16-32. If you are just starting out you may not want to sink all the extra cash into something bigger. But if cash isn't a big issue and you know you are going to be building a lot then hey, something bigger would be nice.

JoshJosh H38762.3485648148

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

My biggest gripe with drum sanders is the inherant nature to clog the sanding strips with wood resin. Simon suggested that I check out WoodMasters tools, which I did. I called the tech support person and asked him specifically if there sander will load the belt (like my Performax 16-32) does and he said YES, their sander would do the same thing with certain woods.

I bought a Grizzly wide belt sander and only wish I would have done this 15 years ago. Granted drum sanders are fine if you are building a few guitars per year but they just don't meet my needs any more.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

[QUOTE=Pwoolson] I probably will before long, I'd get the smaller wide belt that has an open end. So my advice to you is to save your pennies and go that route. [/QUOTE]

Paul: Be sure to do your homework on open end wide belt sanders. Several years ago I rented time on one of these sanders at a local cabinet shop. The open end design had too much flex (similar to a 16-32) and left really deep gouges in the wood. I was sanding some laminated maple bench tops and it did a terrible job. This was a 24" - 20HP industrial machine. Closed end machine offer a lot more rigidity over an open end design.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Tim, Do widebelts clog the paper? Say on Cocobolo? Just wondering.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I'll second Tim's advice on checking out open end machines thorourghly
before purchase. I've always felt that the open end design was a
compromise on reliable thickness consistency (accross the width of the
board), which is critical to gutiar making. Imagine a top that is .120 along
one edge and .085 on the other.
The greatest reason that a wide belt doesn't load as badly as a drum is
heat build up (or lack of). As a belt exits the drive pulley and goes
through the air for a while before it contacts the work again, it cools
considerably. That combined with the greater surface area means less
heat to render the resins in the wood to a gooey state and clog the
sanding media.
A drum sander accumulates heat in the media and the drum with nowhere
for it to go. Work arounds with a drum are to angle the material through
the sander (using more of the drum and media), make more passes at
lighter cuts, wait a few seconds between passes to let it all cool down, &
experiment with feed rates (the Woodmaster is adjustable).
No question the wide belt is a better option, if you've got the $$.
-CChas Freeborn38762.4697916667

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

Granted drum sanders are fine if you are building a few guitars per year but they just don't meet my needs any more.

I'll wholeheartedly agree that the wide belt sanders are the Mercedes, but I'm doing fine with my drum, thank you very much. The 'ol Ford will bring you home just as well as the Lincoln.....

I put out a lot more than a few guitars per year....

There is a "trick" to avoid gumming, and double our cut rate, and I have said it time and time again. Run your stock through sideways if you can, and at the greatest angle possible if you can't get in in there sideways. At the fastest possible feed, also. Doing this, I can thickness sand cocobolo all day without gumming anything up. Only the final couple passes are made with the grain...

This is why I'd suggest a nominal 24" in drum width....Mario38762.6167939815

I have had NO trouble with my Woodmaster sander clogging, I do run it at the highest feed rate if that matters.

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Gwaltney Guitars

I have no clogging problems with the Woodmaster either. High feed rate, moderate cuts, and like Mario said, cross grain or angle feed except for the final passes.

-Mark

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
OR
Find me on Facebook

What Grit are you running Mario?

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

80

What about you Bruce? I was running 80/120 but then I started to sand a bunch of this EIR I have for sale and found that the 120 just didn't last. Now I am running 60/80 and it is quite a bit better. But still if I am doing say 10 sets that 40 pieces and things do start to get warm and gummy! Even sanding on the bias, but let her cool down or sand a bit of spruce in between and it works OK.

Shane

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Canada

Thank you one and all for your input and assistance, very much appreciated.

From this thread and through PM contact, I have been able to compile a lot of helpful stuff. Your collective input has clarified the direction that I now believe is best for me and has removed a lot of the uncertainly so, I guess it is mission accomplished.

I feel, given that I will probably only produce just a few instruments a year (still work'in for the man) my best options remain either a 16/32 or a "build your own".

If I can scrounge up the necessary "quality" components to put together a reliable and accurate home built unit, I will probably go down that path and accept the compromise. As PaulB suggest, I to will at first employ that most reliable of powerfeeds, the "Armstong" .

If I fail to be able to find a commercial type drum and shaft, I will buy the 16/32 as these seem to be a very good machine as long as you accept their limitations and go steady.

It seems that most would agree that in the USA you must spend big to obtain complete satisfaction in a commercial machine. A prominent point in choosing my direction is based on the fact that here in Australia the term "Spend Big" is pushed to the ridiculous.

Also, some of the machines mentioned like the Woodmaster, sound very interesting, only problem is, there is no agent here in Australia and if there was, the price would be a deterrent.

So for now, I will embrace the Wagner Safe-T-Plane and begin the scrounge.

Thanks again for your help, much obliged.

Cheers

Kim

I started out using 100/120 and stuck with it. I know on tops the 100 seems rough. I may have tried 80, because that's what I glued in my radius dishes.

Looks like I need to get some more 80. The 120 just doesn't cut it on woods like Leopardwood, and Bubinga. It also instantly clogs on stuff like Cocobolo, Bocote, or Bloodwood. 120 is great on tops.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com