Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=tippie53]   US manufacturing is far to political . Facts are , we lost.
    Those that don't learn from History are doomed to repeat it. THe US Gov failed and so did US business. China in fact is waging economic war with the US and is winning .
     The american dream is on the downhill. I hope we can recover before it is too late.
Sorry if I sound so cinical but I see so many skilled and techincal jobs leaving and being replaced by wharhousing jobs at half the pay. I worked in tool making and manufacturing. China is by far taking advantage and we are giving it away.
john hall [/QUOTE]

John,

you'll be happy to know you're wrong and we didn't lose, you just need to change your frame of reference. The U.S. is not an indutrialized nation anymore without competition. We started out as hunters and gatherers, then moved to an agricultural society, followed by an industrialized society, and now we are moving forward as a technology and telecommunications society. We are competing on a global scale, and there are many out there who can out-produce us making the latest widget. That's not where we are going to compete in the future. India, China, Korea, and many others are catching up in the industrial age and we can't take that away from them. We have to focus on ensuring our children get a good education so we can continue to prosper in the tech/telecommunications arena. We are leaps and bounds ahead of them there. The average high school graduate is not going to be able to get right out of school, and then go work for Ford or GM until they retire.

I have many colleagues who are from China, India, East Asia, and I promise you, those countries aren't doing nearly as well as you might think. There is a reason many of them stay over here and never go back.

Cheers!

John

Yep.. I agree completely.

The industrial revolution is over for us. Now we are on to the technological revolution. Emerging economies always utilize their cheap labor as their first opportunity resource, as their economy grows they move up the food chain and cannot afford to do things as cheaply as they once did and the manufacturing jobs move yet again to lower wage economies. Case in point -- Japan. We need to constantly look to the future.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Kinda sucks. Still, I'll probably buy European when I can afford it! Interesting fact, I find, is that all the Meber/Agazzani's/whatever bandsaws Laguna is rebranding of those sizes, over here, have industrial rate, tri-phase, 380V motors. That's what the Italian manufacturing industry is better at. The 220V stuff doesn't seem to be designed for true industrial usage, so that may be part of the issue. It's also true, to a point, that a lot of this kind of tool just isn't made up to the spec it used to be made to.

Still, I get the quality I can where I can find it. Imported tools are getting better as quality controls get tighter, and, well, hardware fails at some point. The way of the world.Mattia Valente38765.1941087963

Brad, I'd be interested to hear what you find out about the motor too. I bought a Laguana LT14 2-3 years ago, also wanting "the best". I was surprised to see the "Made in Bulgaria" plate on the back. The motor has no manufacturing identification on it. The motor runs hot and makes crackling noises after shutting the saw down. A few times the motor has tripped out on thermal overload. I'm concerned because the plate on the motor does not show a frame size that that I can reference. If the motor does die I would be looking for a Baldor or similar replacement.

I am happy with the saw though. It works great and I've done some very nice resawing up to 8" with it. The only problem I've had is the the ceramic guide blocks will ocassionally come unglued from their mounts. I re-glue them with gel CA, on advice from Laguna.TomS38765.2743981481

Regarding Honda/Acura - I think the key here is a company that cares to build a high quality product, not it's place of origin. If your Acura is one of the smaller ones, its basically a Civic (I think) which makes it a Japanese build almost automatically. I've had a 1984 Accord, and a 2001 Accord. The Accord is a US car, I don't think that one was ever built in Japan. The only major component on my 2001 that is imported as a unit is the transmission, built in Japan.

Selling my 1984 was one of those identifiable why-did-I-do-that mistakes. I know the guy who is driving it today.

Jim Kirby

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Civics arent Japan built - its Alliston Ontario, Canada (about an hour north of me) for the North American market - they have built them for over a decade.TonyKarol38765.3354282407

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I guess what I should have put under the subject was "Buy American motors"!!
My point was that it seems odd to me that out of 10 motors in my shop,the two that went bad in the same week are NOT American made-they are also two of the youngest motors I have.
I have had a Unisaw for 30 years whithout a hiccup.
In all fairness to Laguna it is a very smooth running saw-if it wasn't for the motor problem it is one of the nicest bandsaws I have ever owned(I've had ten).
I am in the middle of a very large cabinet job and now I have to figure ot what to do with both my planer and band saw-this really stinks!!
Brad Goodman38765.3999074074

Maybe 4 years ago when I was looking to get a bigger bandsaw, I looked at Laguna too. Then I recall some indication that they didn't engineer or build any of their own bandsaws, they just rebadged other saws (Italian-made, I think).

That may have changed, but at least back then I had the distinct impression they were just rellers. That and a nagging sales approach put me off.

I realize that rebadging happens all the time, but I expect it less on the high end of the market relative to the low end.

[QUOTE=Don Williams] Baldor and Leeson motors are great....[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. I have sold both and am currently a Lesson dealer.

BTW, Lee started Baldor. Sold the company and then Lee's Sons started... well guess which motor company.

Steve

My current one gets 29-30 miles per gallon and I have had it up to 138 mph. I know of no other car in the world that combines the luxury, spottiness, quality, and economy of this one.

I have a 1987(87!) Buick(Buick!) Grand National that gets 29mpg, tops out at 147(only because it runs out of gear...), pulls 0-60 in under 5 flat, the air is still cold, 19 years after being built, all power accesories still work fine, car still has no rust, and is tight as a drum.

My 1989(89!) GMC runs so flawlessly that I forget to even change the oil way too often for my own good. My tax accountant was here Wednesday to gather our stuff, and he asked for the truck repair receipts. Ain't none. I've hopped in it at -59f(minus fity nine!) to drive my neighbor/brother to work one morning when his two year old Honda would even as much as cough.

My newest vehicle is a '95 GMC Safari van. Not as sexy or fun as the GN, but it goes everywhere we point it.

Watching a motoring show a couple months ago, they were raving of the new KIA's... I have a friend who runs a tow truck, and I asked him a few weeks ago if our overly mild winter was hurting his business, and he said "nah, there's plenty of KIA's around here to keep us plenty busy".

Honda's are fine cars, as are Toyotas and what all else, and they do seem to run and run, but dammit, my plain'ol, north American cars and trucks aren't exactly leaving me by the roadside every second day, and while you can't give away a 15 year old Honda or Toyota, I can still get over 12k for the GN, 3-4k for the truck, and who knows what for the van(4-5k?)(though I tend to buy and hold until they die, which, may be a good while yet...). Cost of ownership for my truck and GN work out to around $1,000/year, initial purchase included.
The lemons of the 70's and early 80's were what killed detroit, not the last 20 year's offerings..... Mario38765.4953356481

I tend to agree with you... but now I think a little sexy engineering would do the detroit brands (because let's face it... there is no such thing as PURELY american or PURELY foreign car) some good.

Personally I think that those reissue cars are kind of hot (especially the mustang). If it works for guitars... why not cars, right?   

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com