Official Luthiers Forum!

I get very frustrated at times when a vendor fails to meet my expectations.
The particular vendor which is the subject of this rant is Iturra Designs. I've ordered products from them in the past without problems, but this time was the exception.
Over a week ago, I ordered 5 bandsaw blades. I was very careful to stress the importance of having the blades in my hand for the weekend (last weekend) so that I could get my work done.
They shipped only 2 blades, with the others backordered. I have an issue with that. They have all my information, name address, phone numbers, email address etc., and it would have been a simple thing to let me know they were out of inventory when I placed my order. They failed to let me know, or I would have made other arrangements to get the similar product from a different vendor to fill my needs.
So I decided to call them this week to find out if the other blades had shipped. I was already behind schedule for slicing up wood, and didn't need further delays. I figured I had better follow up.
I made a poor assumption that they were buying the blades in roll form and then cutting and welding to size, and would soon have the new ones ready. Bad assumption. My bad...not their fault.
They finally got back to me late in the day yesterday to let me know they shipped out 3 more of the 1/2" size so I would have blades. I appreciated that...but...one problem...they didn't ship them out quickly enough for me to have them for this weekend. Now I have to wait another week before I can put them to use...a two week delay in getting my work done.
There's nothing so frustrating as to have a vendor not pay attention to the needs and desires of their customers. There's a BIG difference between good customer service and just filling orders.

Will I continue to do business with them? The answer is "yes". Why? Because they are still a good company, with a great product at a great price and normally very good service. I've just learned to ask more questions now, like "Are they in inventory???????".

Rant over.
Don Williams38779.6429513889

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I feel your pain, and totally agree with you. I'm sure that some of their bigger customers wouldn't put up with much of that.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I agree with you a 100% Don, it seems that nowadays, they forget to include "common sense 101" in education or "practical thinking for dummies" for all the customer service people that are sleepin' on the switch!

At our local Macdonald, you get the right order once every 5 orders!

Rant over as well!

Since we're venting, I ordered 50 sheets of 100 grit sandpaper and a quart of pore filler from Target Coatings. When I got the goods, I thought it was odd that they arrived in separate packages. More odd to learn that I was charged $8.50 shipping for each package, so $17 for shipping two small items. When ordering my online cart showed $8.50.

I contacted them assuming that they had made an honest mistake. Wrong. They explained that shipping was always estimated. I then protested that if they found it more convenient to ship separately, they should pay the difference, not me (seeing as both items would easily fit in a small box). Never heard back.

So is my concern $8? Nope, it's the principle.

Will I deal with them again? Nope.

Bob Steidl38778.5305208333

Don,
I feel your pain. When someone orders something from me, I let them know when it will be shipped, and if there will be a delay. If they need it right away, I check first to make sure I can meet their expectation. If not, I'm honest about how long it will take. They at least have the option of waiting or going elsewhere. I put myself in the shoes of every customer I have, becuase I know how if feels! Thanks for letting us know of your frustrations, it helps us all to set expectations up front with the company you are doing business with.
Tracy

While I'm at it...I'll also plug for someone here on the OLF I did business with, who had delays but was forthright with me, and I will never cease to do business with them due to their honesty...and that is Mr. John Hall. He's a class act.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Now if only I were as perfect as I expect others to be.... dang, I'm feeling the pangs of guilt...

...I'm recalling when I owed someone some money for some wood or something I bought from them. It took me forever to pay them. I was going through a really rough period in my life, and for some reason I just couldn't muster the energy to simply write a check and send it out. It nearly cost me a friendship. Fortunately, the person understood and showed me a lot of kindness. That's a behavior I hope to never repeat.Don Williams38778.5606828704

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

When I was in the working world, that company I was at had a Monday Morning Meeting every week. We always opened with customer service stories. I would say that 75% of them were bad customer service stories. I guess it goes to show that bad service sticks around in our minds much longer than good service. (Hmmm, that didn't come out right and I can't find the words to make it right, I hope you know what I mean)
My CS rant of the day. I sent an email to one of our sponsors with the urgent need of his product. That was 4 days ago and I haven't heard back. That's the kind of stuff that bothers me to no end.

Tracy should give "good business practice 101" seminars to the folks mentioned above (and others). I ordered a couple of radius templates from him a while back (one was even a custom radius), and his prices were good, service was fast, the templates are nicely done, and he kept me informed every step of the way. Don't know if there's a "mom" at your shop, Tracy, but "pop" sure got it right!

Thanks Carlton! I do business this way because I feel the same way Paul feels. When you are an internet based company, an email is the same as a customer walking in the door to browse. When they have a question they get a quick response while in your store. Over the internet, you can't do that, but my goal is to make it seem that you are in a brick & mortar store, and when you have a question, you get a quick response. If a business is only selling over the internet and don't respond within a few hours, they have no right to be in business as far as I'm concerned. I treat everyone the way I want to be treated when I'm a customer. And since I'm building too, I know what "urgent" means
Tracy

I called Iturra this morning to order two blades. Louis informed me that he was almost out of the 105" blade I needed but would have more next week. He had one in stock and said it would go out today. I asked if he made the blades at his shop and he responded no. I gusess I got lucky and asked the right questions.

Hey Paul I hope it wasn't me.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I've been having a bit of customer service trouble myself in recent days. I won't mention the vendor at this time, because I'm trying to give hime the benefit of the doubt, and I still hope this will resolve well. It's not one of our sponsors, by the way. Anyway, I sympathize with your frustration, Don.

I do want to mention that I have found Lou Iturra very helpful. He has been generous with his knowledge and taken the time to answer questions I've had about my band saw which had nothing to do with his making a sale. I've also had good service from him when ordering stuff. I'm pretty sure that he and his wife run the whole show at Iturra designs, and get somewhat overwhelmed at times, but do their best.

I do not mean to excuse the lack of clear communication with Don in this case. Don has every reason to be unhappy. I only mean to suggest that it can help with one's expectations if one knows the type of business one is dealing with - in this case, a very small mom and pop shop which gets more business than they can handle sometimes because they offer great products at good prices and take the kind of time with their customers that I have appreciated. When I call or email with a question for Lou, I just assume it may take him a couple days to get back to me, so I don't have a problem with it. He's come through for me in ways that no one else has been able to - providing a hard-to-find part or hard-to-find bit of very helpful information. The guy knows bandsaws!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

That sort-of explains it...and although I'm miffed at being put way behind schedule, like I said, they've usually been really good to me, but this time I felt like I fell through the cracks. Especially knowing they are a small family business, I will get over my dissapointment with them (and pretty much have already) and continue doing business with them. I would rather support small business than big huge companies, even if there's a trade-off like this at times.

He (Louis) has been extremely helpful in the past (almost to a fault), but if they are a small family run business, it would be hard for them to keep track of every customer's situations for sure. I'm sure they are doing the best they can. Rant over..it's all in the past.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Me too, i'll have a big Mac tonight!

Don,

ARGH for you. Two weeks has gotta hurt.

It's regrettable that the kind of service we hope to get -- and certainly DO get from the sponsors here and other small internet operations -- was commonplace, but now seems a rarity.

I try to keep in mind that of the three things we go to a vendor for
Product quality
Price
Service

Sometimes you might get only 1 of the 3, should expect at least 2, and sometimes you get lucky and get all three.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Don,

   You may want to check into a stand alone blade welder. It would enable you to take advantage of roll/bulk prices and save the additional cost added for the weld process done at the vendor's establishment.

   When I worked as a journeyman machinist in a small shop in Hackettstown, NJ years ago, I saw a very nice unit that sat on a small bench and took up only about a 12 inch square of it. It had a built grinding stone and took less than a minute to prep and weld a blade. I used it many times and the welds were superior to those on blades coming from outside vendors. 220 volts and little bench space and it was ready to run.

   The bottom line of the beauty of one of these units is that a broken blade is no longer a lost cause or expense, but can be dressed and rewelded and used again.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I think it's unfortunate that Lou Iturra's reputation is so wrongly being mauled and mugged here. Also unfortunate that human nature tends to pile on the bashing bandwagon. This thread does no one any good. There's no point to it other than a public airing of private misguided misdirected bashing rant. I'm not at all in favor of forum censorship (one of the reasons the "other" forum is singing it's swan song) but why allow this kind of thread? It benefits absolutely no one and casts an ugly shadow over an otherwise hard working business man. A supplier who is simply out of stock cannot be made the scapegoat for poor shop planning. Why did you wait unit the last minute to order if this project was so important to be done on a specific day? Professionals tend to learn good habits that preclude these problems i.e., ordering two weeks earlier would have precluded this problem. Being an informed customer and taking the time to understand the suppliers product could have precluded this problem. Next time you are down to two bands reorder then....never run out again. I know this will result in a bit more cash expenditures that small shops can't always afford but it is a soulution. Poor shop planning and incorrect presumptions and lack of product research on product availability caused your problem...deal with it and accept it for what it is. Iturra Designs has every reason to remove you from his customer base, but won't because he's a classy guy. The damage is done, but Don, you owe Lou Iturra a public and PRIVATE apology as he will certainly read or be informed of this thread.

I have bought only a small amount of supplies from Lou Iturra many years ago,however he left an indelible mark in my mind because of his willingness to help me with a problem at the time.I can't even remember what that problem was,but he took the time out of his busy schedule to help me solve my problem.
If I needed something I would buy from him and have reccomended him to other people over the years.Brad Goodman38779.4293634259

I have a vendor frustration as well. I have been buying some wood from this fellow named Zootman!?

Some has very good stuff but lately the stuff I have been getting from him has had spots all over it, grain figure going in all directions and funny patterns every where.

Then talking customer service! I have to wait nearly 3 days to get a package from the east coast to Texas when shipped at regular rate. If I have an emergency order late in the evening it takes him till the next morning to get it packed up and in route. And then he has the gal to charge me less than list price, just because I am a member of this forum. I don't know if I can handle this treatment anymore


Thanks Bob you are the Greatest.
Sorry Bob but I could not resist after your email
MichaelP38779.5186111111

Michael, that one made my day! Somehow, i knew you couldn't get mad at Bob, don't ask me how i know this ...youda man Michael!

Michael thanks for the kind words. It's allways a pleasure my friend.

Serge your posts make my day.
Thank you too.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I had to get you on the bad vendor list somehow. This was the only way I knew how