Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm curious what the best way is to undo an epoxy joint? The reason this is OT is because I'm un-glueing the epoxy shaft on one of my golf clubs. I assume I can just heat it up and the epoxy will break free, correct? Has anybody else reshafted one of their golf clubs,and does this sound right?

Thanks!

John

    I build my own clubs and love to play. Acutally a little heat. I use a cigarette lighter , when the epoxy lets loose you will see a little puff of smoke.
     Chances are you may ruin a fiber shaft. The steel ones you can take in and out a few times.
   Fore!!!!
john
PS this is the last venue where drinking and driving is still encouraged

I have built golf clubs since I was 18, experiance from a collegiate golf scholarship and working in a pro shop as a student

Steel Shafts:
Heat the hossle till you can turn the shaft by hand. It does not take a lot. about 30 sec with a propane torch.

Fiberglass or Graphite Shafts:

These are tricky to do with out damaging the shaft. Temp control and shaft extraction are critical with graphite shafts. You really need a graphite shaft puller and a special designed hossle heater made for these shafts. They heat the hossle to just the point the epoxy lets lose and extracts the shaft under tension at that insant and without any twist at all, twist will ruin the shaft, but even with this equipment about 30-40% of the shafts are not reusable. The reason is the end of the graphite shaft that was in the hossle and there by heated, is not likely to be good because the heat depredates the epoxy used to form the shaft and you end up with loose carbon filaments where it was in the hossle

You can do graphite shafts with out the specialty equipment but the shaft will not be reuseable.

Go to Golfsmith .com lots of info there

By the way I am assuming you are changing the shaft in a club. Be sure to read up on this procedure . Shaft tip and butt triming is critical to setting the flex point of the new shaft which in turn affects playability of the club. Both ends will need triming and both ends affect the flex. Here again Golfsmith shold have the info for you.
MichaelP38789.7438078704

Thanks for the info guys! I just plan on removing a steel (stiff) shaft and replacing with a steel (regular) shaft. It's sad, but my back won't allow me to swing as hard as I used to so it's back to regular shafts. At least I'm not down to the senior shafts yet!   

I think if this entire group ever meets together somewhere, a golf outing would be a great way to spend some time.

Cheers!

John

RULES OF GOLF:

- The game of golf is 90% mental and 10% mental.
- If you want to get better at golf, go back and take it up at a much earlier age.
- Since bad shots come in groups of three, a fourth bad shot is actually the beginning of the next group of three.
- When you look up and cause an awful shot, you will always look down again at exactly the moment when you ought to start watching the ball if you ever want to see it again.
- Any change works for a maximum of three holes and a minimum of not at all.
- No matter how bad you are playing, it is always possible to play worse
- Never keep more than 300 separate thoughts in your mind during your swing.
- When your shot has to carry over a water hazard, you can either hit one more club or two more balls.
- Golfers who claim they don't cheat, also lie.
- If you're afraid a full shot might reach the green while the foursome ahead of you is still putting out, you have two options: you can immediately shank
a lay-up, or you can wait until the green is clear and top a ball halfway there.
- The less skilled the player, the more likely he is to share his ideas about the golf swing.
- The inevitable result of any golf lesson is the instant elimination of the one critical unconscious motion that allowed you to compensate for all your errors.
- If it ain't broke, try changing your grip.
- It's not a gimme if you're still away.
- Everyone replaces his divot after a perfect approach shot.
- A golf match is a test of your skill against your opponent's luck.
- It's surprisingly easy to hole a 50-foot putt when you lie 10.
- Counting on your opponent to inform you when he breaks a rule is like expecting him to make fun of his own haircut.
- Non chalant putts count the same as chalant putts.
- The shortest distance beween any two points on a golf course is a straight line that passes directly through the center of a very large tree.
- There are two kinds of bounces: unfair bounces, and bounces just the way you meant to play it.
- You can hit a 2-acre fairway 10% of the time, and a 2-inch branch 90% of the time.
- Every time a golfer makes a birdie, he must subsequently make two triple bogeys to restore the fundamental equilibrium of the universe.
- If you want to hit a 7-iron as far as Tiger Woods does, simply try to lay up just short of a water hazard.
- To calculate the speed of a player's downswing, multiply the speed of his backswing by his handicap. Example: backswing 20 mph, handicap 15, downswing 600 mph.
- There are two things you can learn by stopping your backswing at the top and checking the position of your hands: how many hands you have, and which one is wearing the glove.
- Hazards attract. Fairways repel.
- You can put "draw" on the ball, you can put "fade" on the ball, but no golfer can put "straight" on the ball.
- A ball you can see in the rough from 50 yards away is not yours.
- If there is a ball in the fringe and a ball in the bunker, your ball is the one in the bunker
- If both balls are in the bunker, yours is in the footprint.
- Don't buy a putter until you've had a chance to throw it.

Good OT post, John!

BTW...we call it golf because all the other 4-letter words were taken!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Be aware that when you buy a shaft. be it stiff, regular or what ever it will come with about an inch and a half of tip section and even more butt section. This is to allow for proper trimming based on personal spec and the loft, length and swing weight of the club. The shaft should have paper work that tells you how to trim it. If you trim the length only at the butt end the shaft will whip and vibrate and have too much flex and may collapse at its weakest point. if you trim too much on the tip end, even though it is a regular shaft it may become stiffer than a properly fitted stiff shaft or have almost no flex at your swing speed. The proper trim is a ratio based on your personal height, the loft of the club, the weight of the head and the weight of the grip. All these things influence swing weight and flex. Off the shelf clubs are built for a male person 5'10" tall with average swing arc for that height swinging at 75mph swing speed at the bottom apex of there swing. With out measuring the "swing weight and the head and grip weight you will likely build a club that feels and reacts vastly different than the rest of the cups in the set. If you are changing a full set the the proper considerations need to be made to have a consistent swing weight and flex throughout the set. Each club will have a different tip trim point and but trim point to achieve the proper flex and swing weight for that loft and length. Waring! varring swing weights and flex positions in a single set will make being consistent very difficult. As easy as it is to do the labor to change shafts, just like setting intonation, setting up the club's swing weight and flex point is a critical set-up to make the clubs playable. It is very easy to end up with a set of irons, that quite literally will be unplayable.

Having done this over a hundred or more times. I can tell you that most people that change their shafts with out the use of a swing weight scale end up very dissatisfied with the result. And I'm not talking about low handicapper or pros here. a 1/16 of an inch in trim can make a full swing weight difference and dramatically change the flex. Also not all regular or stiff flex shafts have the same trim points. As you can imagine the thickness of the shaft, step pattern configurations all play a part. I know it sound like I am being over reactive but I had rather have you thinking I am a know it all than to have you cussing your self, or worse throwing you back out trying to swinging a club that is out of whack. It is not a hard task but you really do need a swing weight scale to have a good chance of getting it right. You local USGA cub pro will me more than happy to give you verbal help and most will allow you to use their swing weight scale if you establish a relationship with them. Keep in mind if you ask that club repair is one of the ways they make a living. so if he or she does not know you then they may be hesitant. But i have never met one that would not be willing to give at least verbal advise. and if you have not done this before. you will need it.

Check out Golfsmith.com for most of the info you will need. Also USGA has club fitting info

Remember We hit down on the ball because deceleration starts on the up swing MichaelP38789.854375

Thanks for the info. I'm only reshafting my driver (Nike), all my irons are Callaway and already have regular shafts. I don't think drivers need the tips trimmed as you mention. I think that mostly applies to irons where the same shaft would be used for many different clubs. For the driver, the shaft tip fits exactly into the head the proper distance. If I were to trim any off, it would be way to fat to fit in the head. Does that sound right?

John

No, even wood shafts need the tips and butts trimmed for proper swing weight, and flex point and arc length, The shaft does not come out of the box ready to install. Now if you bought a shaft from Callaway for a Callaway big Bertha and did not spec shaft requirements then there is a chance that Callaway pre trimmed it to std spec. but if you order a blank shaft for a Golf supply house like GolfSmith then it will come from the shaft manufacturer wit extra but and tip. If you bought it from a pro shop then maybe they have pre trimmed it. the tip is a single dia. for a given length depending on shaft manufacture, And there are two different types of tip. Straight and what is parallel tip that has a constricted area in the tip that acts as a wedge to to trap epoxy in a sort of wedge around the shaft. these are not used much any more.

There is a difference in iron and wood shafts but straight from the shaft manufacture, unaltered they have extra butt and tip to allow for fitting. If your shaft has no more tip than what will fit into the hossle of the club then it has been trimmed at some point.MichaelP38789.9143634259

Hmm, I'm gonna have to do some more reading I guess. I bought the shaft from Golf Galaxy and they didn't do anything to it. If I trim anything off the shaft, it won't fit into the head. Everything I've read so far says I don't need to trim driver shaft tips, only the butts. Do you know a website where I can find the amount if any to trim?

Thanks!

John

yep.. go to golfsmith.com   find the their stock number for that shaft and go to shaft triming instructions tab and enter the stock number and shaft manufacture and it will give the the trimming instructions for both blind and through bore hossle woods.

To take Michael's pointers a step further ... to build an absolute perfectly matched set of clubs you will need to have them "spine aligned" [or pured] & "frequency matched". Spine aligning is locating the stiffest portion of the shaft and orienting it in the direction of ball flight for added [droop] consistency during the downswing. This applys to steel and grphite shafts. Frequency matching is a device in which you clamp the shaft (usually butt end) with the head temporarily fixed and twang the shaft. The machine measures OPM or CPM (osciltions or cycles per minute). You then tip trim the shaft tip until you arrive at a pre-determined OPM or CPM. Each club is then built at 4 CPM intervals to give you the proper slope between clubs. Tip trimming will get you in the ball park but frequency matching is the most accurate way to arrive at a PCS (Professional Clubmaker's Society) of flex standardization. Each club will then all feel identical when you hit them. I am a certified PCS club builder too ;)

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

I did misstate one thing on woods the butt trim does not affect the stffness of the flex but will affect the swing weight and flex point. this is not mentioned on Golfsmith.com but is in my clubmakers manual from CGA "Golf Clubmakers Association". If you should need I have an extra swingweight scale I would be willing to lend if you pick up the shipping both ways. it is a ballance beam type weighs both swing weight and staic weight.

Tim you old clubhead you!

John if there is no extra tip than what fits into the hossle then they are factory trimed for either a through bore or a a blind bore these differnt type of hossle bores require differnt tip trims. I have been out of clubmaking for about ten years now. It is possibe that pre trimming is common now but I don't think it is a good practice. being able to vary the flex point is one of the best ways to properly fit a golfer. If this is the case then you have bought a canned shaft meaning it is set for a avarage 5'10" persons avarage swing arc at avarage swing speed. this may not be a bad marketing practice but it sure cuts down on the tunability of that shaft. Tim is also right if you ever want to find out what the pros feel when swinging a club spend the money and have your set fitted with pured and frequency matched set of shafts. The feel is amazing and the ods are it will take 3-5 stokes of your handicap in a seaon.

Not to discourage you, but just as I would tell someone with needed guitar repairs. Go see a pro. It is going to cost less than the cost of two pro line shafts to get it fitted to specificly to you rather than factory specs.MichaelP38789.9321296296

John...I have a buddy who builds clubs and I just know enough to trust the modifications to him. He has all the equipment and can match them to the other clubs in the bag.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

And here I thought all along it was just a stick with a brick on the end of it <ducking> Don A38790.0580439815

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

[QUOTE=John Elshaw]   At least I'm not down to the senior shafts yet! [/QUOTE]
What, they've got wheels?    Loved the rules, John, and I don't even play!

[QUOTE=Tim McKnight] ... to build an absolute perfectly matched set of clubs you will need to have them "spine aligned" [or pured] & "frequency matched". Spine aligning is locating the stiffest portion of the shaft and orienting it in the direction of ball flight for added [droop] consistency during the downswing. This applys to steel and grphite shafts. Frequency matching is a device in which you clamp the shaft (usually butt end) with the head temporarily fixed and twang the shaft.[/QUOTE]
What??? "Spine aligned," "frequency matched," "butt-end droop," "twang of the shaft"--Is he talkin' dirty again, Martha?

Thanks for the info again guys! I'm going to tinker around with it just because I want to learn and see how it's done. It's just a driver and I can take it to a pro if need be, but they wanted $110 to reshaft my driver. I paid $9.99 for a true temper shaft, and being a high handicapp (15), I'll probably never notice the difference. My Callaways are setup perfect for my swing, but if I can get another 5 strokes off my handicap, I might be game (just think Kevin Costner with all the golf aides in Tin Cup)   

Yup, I can feel the change in the air here (Ottawa), it's gona be golfin' season soon... Aweright!

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

John I have to confess! last night I did not think about "unitized woods shafts" That is what you have they require no tip trim. and this is the modern standard shaft for woods now. I have to confess to having a brain fart yesterday

[QUOTE=John Elshaw] but if I can get another 5 strokes off my handicap, [/QUOTE]

Leave the driver at home and and work on the wedges. 100 yards and in are where the most strokes can be shaved. It's a tough decision because we men want to crush the ball 300+ yards and our testosterone (sp) gets in the way of our brain 99% of the time. I can crush the ball too but it's usually a surprise where it ends up. 50 yards deeper in the rough is not much fun. Here is one of my favorite sites if you are an equipment junkie
GEA

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com