Official Luthiers Forum!

Well Jeff Binion from Brazilwoods red my post on what happened to me yesterday. I bought two pieces of Jacaranda also know as Brazilian Pau Ferro. Jeff informed me that his wife had the exacct symptoms and had to be taken to the hospital because she though she was having a heart attack. After taking tests they found nothing wrong. Turned out to be an allergic reaction to this wood. Now driving home with thsi wood in the truck windows closed because of the heavy rain I'm beginning to beleive that this is indeed a very good possibility. Blood presuure has been fine all day and I'm feeling fine. The wood is still in my truck because I didn't feel well enough to unload it. I'm going to wear gloves and a respirator when I unload and don't think I'll be cutting it. Has anyone else had a similar reaction to Jacaranda?

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Huh, that seems possible. A while back, I traded some sets with a guy who wanted to get rid of them because of a similarly terrible reaction, though it lasted much longer than yours. You might see a doc about a scratch test. Regardless, be careful with that stuff, it bothers lots of folks.

Glad you're on the up and up.

Send it to me Bob, and I'll test it out for ya!    Really though, I was just cleaning my shop today (uncovered some 1000 yr. old sawdust and what not) and I'm walking around sneezing and hacking and an aching chest...probably should wear a dust mask doing heavy sweeping from here on out! I do hope you feel better though.

Larry

_________________
http://www.presnallguitars.com

Man I hope its something as simple as an allergic reaction to "Jacaranda"!   Isn't Jacaranda another name for Brazilian rosewood?

I've got a sneaking suspicion as to where you were yesterday

it's good to know that it had more to do with the wood and not your health Bob, please do wear gloves, mask and whatever protection gear you got when dealing with this kind of puppy!

Serge

I hope you feel better and are back to normal quickly, Bob!
Pau Ferro gives me a pretty intense reaction, and I have read a bunch of accounts over on the MIMF forum from others saying that it makes them pretty sick too! This is no joke, and Mario Proulx also is sensitive to it. And the thing is, it is a sensitizer, so the more you are around it, the worse it will affect you.
The dust from this stuff, if it gets on or inside you, is the worst! Never let it happen, believe me.

_________________
Mark Swanson
Swanson Guitars
http://www.MarkSwansonMusic.com

Gee Bob, your probably going to have to get rid of the truck. Just leave the wood in there, send it packin'

All joking aside, I hope this is all it is for you.

Crazy that there are so many harmful woods out there. Thank goodness for respirators.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

You know... when you told that story I was thinking... "bet that is a wood allergy" but my medical degree hasn't come through yet... so I kept quiet.

At least it is good to know it isn't anything medical. I guess that isn't a species you will be selling any time soon huh?

Glad to hear you are ok.   

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I can work with Cocobolo all day and be fine, but don't bring Pau Ferro near me. Stuff tears me right up. Yup, that bad.

Never had the symptoms you had, but we all react differently to allergens. That stuff shouldn't even be allowed into North America....

This is a perfect example of why you need to build with more people friendly domestic woods like curly maple..

Hope your feeling better Bob!

_________________
CVT Inc.
A tour of our shop (Somewhat outdated)
My Personal eBay profile. BCWoodBug

Anyone want two Jacaranda/ Pau Fero boards. Free to a good home. Just pay shipping. PM me if interested.Bobc38791.2194791667

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Bob: I've suffered from allergies that have almost killed me and I found that magnesium glycinate works well for the symptoms, but, nevertheless, you should get rid of that board. For God's sake don't cut it!

You can get mag glycinate at any good health food store.

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Bob this is what I posted on a recent thread about Pau Ferro.

"Just a brief warning. The only time since a child that I have had to go to Casualty (ER) was a couple of years ago when sanding some Pau Ferro and I had severe breathing difficulties and a skin rash. A small percentage of the population are allergic to PF and should keep well clear. So if it's your first time with PF be alert to the symptoms and wear as full a breathing protection as you can. I'd recommend everyone to just get a PF bridge or fingerboard blank and try it first before laying out the bucks for a B&S set. Not trying to worry anyone I just don't want any of the good folks here to end up in Hospital."

I was in Hospital for 48hrs before they got me stabilised. Apparently about 15% of the population have a reaction to the stuff. What others say, don't cut the stuff, no wood is worth your health.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Thanks for all the good info guys. I'm beginning to believe that it was indeed an alergic reation. Blood pressure was fine all day yesterday. I think the allergic reaction and not knowing what was happening to me caused me to have an anxiety attack resulting in the high blood pressure. I go back to Dr. on Friday so I'll see what he has to say.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Bob,

Entirely possible. Years ago, a very good freind of mine almost had to give up his profession because he suddenly developed an allergy to the metal, nickel. He was a jeweler. Nickel is what makes white gold white.

With the high mineral content of tropical hardwoods, it doesn't surprise me at all. And when you consider that many of the woods have some measure of insect resistance, there must be some natural toxins too.

Glad you're feeling better, Steve

I don't think it's the mineral so much as the organic toxins that cause serious reactions. I'm paranoidly careful about the Cocobolo and Pau Ferro I've got; I won't cut it, sand it, scrape it, or work it in any way without a painter's body suit and respirator, and gloves where applicable. I'll start without gloves to see if I react to it at all, but at the first sign, gloves go on. It's too pretty to risk sensitization, and I've got 4 sets of each waiting to be used, so...yeah.

Funny I have handled cut and sanded Pau/Ferro Marado -Bolvian Rosewood with no problem. This wood is Jacaranda or Brazilian Pau/Ferro which I never had before. Now I know that BRW is sometimes called Jacaranda but this is not BRW. Please don't confuse the two as they are differant species.

Jacaranda found a good home.Bobc38791.3302546296

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

What some people don;t realize is that this stuff is a sensitizer- that means you can work with it for years, and nothing will happen...but at some point, enough will have built up and your system will begin to react to it. You can BECOME allergic to this stuff, and after that it only gets worse!

_________________
Mark Swanson
Swanson Guitars
http://www.MarkSwansonMusic.com

Bob,

I'm sorry to hear that you had those symptoms, and I'm glad you're feeling better. I'm glad you got rid of the offending boards.

When I had my tiny exotic lumber business years ago, I got some wood from Southern Mexico called Chechen (Metopium brownei.) An article was published on my tiny company, and the editor had done a bit of homework on Chechen/Chechem, and noted in the article that the wood was the same family as poison ivy, and that the sap of the tree and oil on the leaves caused strong poison ivy-like skin reactions. The article made it difficult to sell the wood (at least to anyone who had read that article), but I had no reaction to the wood at all. And, I have a very strong reaction to poison ivy. As it turns out, I have had my strongest skin reaction so far to American Black Walnut dust!

This goes to show that we each have to be very aware of what we come in contact with, and be prepared to do as you have done, Bob: eliminate contact if the reaction is too strong.

Take care,

Dennis

_________________
Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

I think you nailed the combination, Bob. You had a reaction, began to worry about the symptoms, which triggered some anxiety, whcih triggers the body's "flight or fight" reaction, which often manifests itself as the exact symptoms you saw, which are very cardiac-like.

It's not the minerals, but the tree's natural survival tools. It's a poisonus plant, thought the poison doesn't affect everyone. Just like some folks aren';t bothered by poison ivy or poison oak, but others just need one brush with a leaf... Remember that walnut shavings can kill a horse!

When we find a personal allergen, it's best not to fight it at all, and do as Bob did; get rid of it. My first reaction to Pau Ferro happened after about 10 fretboards. Ain't been none near my shop since that first reaction....
And when we know some are sensitizers, take extra precautions. I showereed twice yesterday, with no less than 3 changes of clothes, because I was sanding much cocobolo. I have no problems with it, but I rsspect that I could at any moment, given enough exposure. Ironically, it was some of Bob's coco, too <bg>

At one time I was part of a sawmill operation in Guyana cutting woods like Purpleheart, Greenheart, Lignum Vitae, Rosewoods, Ebonies and such and there were some woods that were so toxic that even a splinter would make your arm go numb. Please dont take any sensitivity to a plant or tree lightly, especially exotic hardwoods as some of them produce resins that are used in medicine for various uses.

There was a wood we harvested near the Surinam border that the locals called "sleeping wood" in which the shaman would grind powder from the bark and that when blown into peoples faces could make them pass out. It may have been a toxin in the bark so as a mold or fungus secretion or some compound in the wood itself but it was extremely powerful.

The thing to be aware of regarding this is that overtime you become more and more sensitive to is that sometimes this allergic buildup can culminate in anaphylactic shock.

anaphylactic shock
n.
A sudden, severe allergic reaction characterized by a sharp drop in blood pressure, urticaria, and breathing difficulties that is caused by exposure to a foreign substance, such as a drug or bee venom, after a preliminary or sensitizing exposure. The reaction may be fatal if emergency treatment, including epinephrine injections, is not given immediately.