Official Luthiers Forum!

So what is YOUR method for filling any gaps you may find between the top and the binding after it’s glued in? How do you keep the above method from staining the top / binding darker in that area?

I know I know... the BEST way is not to HAVE any gaps...



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mostly lacquer sticks

what type of glue are you using to attach binding? what material, wood or plastic, are you binding with?

I use thin CA to glue my binding in. I can fill some gaps at this point with CA but I try to not have any gaps. Scrape any CA off from top or sides. During finish if anything appears I just drop fill with lacquer which obviously doesn't stain.

One of the things that has been really helpful is to prebend all of my binding in the same mold that I bent the sides. In the case of electric guitars I make a mold just to bend the binding - if the binding fits and you don't have to force it you won't have gaps.

LMI FCA and spot glue miters with CA. Tightbond for wood.

If the sides are a dark wood fill with dust and CA. If light I am in trouble. A bwb purfling on the bottom edge makes it easier to fill a gap with light wood.

Making sure every other piece of tape pulls down, especially in problem areas like the upper bout on the back has helped me some.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

i use titebond for bindings.

After pulling off the tape from a binding job, I carefully inspect looking for gaps.

If there is a small gap here and there, there are fixes.

You can usually warm the area in question to loosen the glue, with either an iron or a paint stripper gun, put a little bit of fresh glue in, and reseat the binding in either direction. I use a 1" dowel slightly crowned on the end to push the binding inward and down. Heat, push, then push where the tape is. If the tape wiggles, push and tape, push and tape, until the taep stops wiggling, then you know the binding is seated flush.

Binding glued w titebond. Bubinga with a cedar tomorrow on this one


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I think I’ll try this.
What happened on a spot is the binding got twisted as I was taping it in... so it is skewed. If I can loosen the glue I should be able to straitened it


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Use a hand or finger plane to make small shavings of whatever colored binding or purfling you want to fill next to. Cut or match the length of the shaving to that of the gap. Wipe the area with a couple passes of shellac to prevent discoloration, seat the shaving, and wick in cyanoacrylate. Level with a chisel and you are done.

I use titebond on binding normally. Going to try fish glue here soon, but anyway... I do like Ed recommends and reheat the area with a heat gun.

A tip though... if the tape isn’t working to get it seated after reheating, try twill tape like Robbie O’Brien recommends. I’ve been able to close up some heinous gaps in parlors where the waist is really tight by using the twill tape. You can pretty much torture it into place. Hopefully the bend and fit is better to begin with on yours, but I had a really bad one once and that fixed it.

FWIW, I’ve moved to using twill tape in addition to some regular tape on binding jobs at the start. I put regular tape and space it about an inch apart and then wrap with twill tape. I haven’t had any gaps since moving to that method. I’ve gotten better about fitting, so it could be that too. Worth a look though.


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I've seen the method Ed described used successfully. Definitely worth a try.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

If you don't build in any gaps you won't have to fill them. I have tried several different binding materials and glues and have settled on the following - it seems to work for wood, plastic, any kind of purfling.

Seal the top with a coat of shellac. Route the binding and purfling channels (think about the order so you have best support of the router and bit). Clean up the channels so they are perfect. That means the corners are square and there aren't any little fuzzies.

Put the binding + purfling sandwich in the channels and tape in place (include the teflon strip if you are doing pearl). I use low tack 1 inch masking tape with gaps about 1/2 between pieces. Get the miters and end piece and everything else perfect. Make sure the binding and purfling fit the channel pefectly. Push against it with a little block of wood, if it moves it isn't perfect. Take it out and fix it.

I want the binding and pufling to stand proud of the top and sides by a couple of thou - you can feel it but hardly see it. I want to be scraping binding back to wood, not the other way around. I'll frequently use a quick clamp at the waist and its often necessary to come up with creative clamping at cutaway horns or around headstock. The goal is the same, you want the binding perfectly tight.

I then put a tiny drop of thin (#10) CA on the binding and purfling between each piece of tape with a pipette. The idea is to put the drop on the sandwich right up to the top but not actually get any on the top wood. It will wick right down between the layers of the sandwich and tightly tack everything to the guitar. If there was any movement with the wood block I'll hold that part of the binding tight while the CA kicks off. I don't use accellerator because I think it can stain the top.

Once the CA has completely kicked pull all the tape and with the pipette run a bead of CA over the entire length and width of the sandwich. Again, the goal is to get it right to the edge but not go over. Tip the guitar on its side and run a bead on the bottom of the binding.

After that has kicked off, scrape back the binding and purfling to the top and sides - you will be removing the glue that was sitting on the top and leaving just the wood and fiber. I make it a point if I do any sanding to always scrape afterwards - you will get a much nicer line with your different colors.

Once in a very great while I will get a tiny gap - they usually don't show up until I'm finishing. Its pretty easy to drop fill with lacquer at that point.

Here is an example - prebent wood binding for an archtop (I bent a couple of extra pieces so I could pick the best one) - these are commercial strips that you can buy from LMII



Binding in place with one ebony purfling line



Head, neck, pickguard and f-holes bound to match



I simply could not have done some of this (f-holes) with something like Titebond

Cedar top, coco back, sides, headplate and rosette, coco bining with bwbw purfling. Thin CA

Gary L. Said:

Use a hand or finger plane to make small shavings of whatever colored binding or purfling you want to fill next to. Cut or match the length of the shaving to that of the gap. Wipe the area with a couple passes of shellac to prevent discoloration, seat the shaving, and wick in cyanoacrylate. Level with a chisel and you are done.

That is the way I do it also. The sides are easy. Just fill the space with shaving, not dust, and CA.

The top is harder but the method is the same. For the end grain areas you have to make shaving from end grain top cutoffs. I usually use Elmer's white wood glue for the top repairs. Just be sure to wear gloves or at least wash your hands well. The glue will darken with the slightest dirt.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I do what Freeman does but don't forget to put a coat of shellac on after the binding channels are cut so CA doesn't get into the top wood.

I learned pretty quick to avoid gaps but sometimes there will be a small void that I can usually just drop fill. I've used most of the methods here and they all have their place; use whichever is appropriate for the situation.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Gaps in the binding against the top can be hard to hide. If you use a dark wood binding for small gaps you can use a paste made from sawdust and the finish material you are going to use. The finish material has enough "stick" to act as a binder and is less likely to cause staining problems or be off color.

How I do.
https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015 ... orial.html

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Small gaps filled and binding installed thanks for the tips guys. Great advice



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Looks good!

Looking good - Plain Myrtle?
Got one on the bench just now, and some Bubinga bindings looked out to use strangely enough.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Its tamarind Wood. I haven’t built with it before. It feels and bends a lot like Chechen from my limited experience.
Myrtle is definitely on my “to do” list though:)


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Thanks Ed. Making a pretty guitar is fairly easy. Making one that sounds good is fairly easy, and making one that feels good isn’t bad......but putting all those variables together proves difficult haha;)



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It'll come with repetition...

Spruce top, walnut binding had gaps. I used Elmer's white school glue with sanded up spruce from the top. Possibly, I slightly thinned the glue with water--don't remember. I use the school glue instead of the production glue because school glue generally dries clear and colorless. I was pleasantly surprised how well it did. I still have the guitar and I cannot find the spots that I repaired.

Yessir.


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