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Reading a thread on neck block construction and see that a CNC machine is employed to fashion a consistent neck block to use on all guitar designs.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51428

I'm curious as to how many use a CNC machine to create such things and what kind of investment in time and dollars this adventure takes.

I can't see myself ever going down that road with limits on space and learning curve but am interested in standardizing SOMETHING in my builds.

...and if not CNC how does one create parts and pieces consistently?

Is there another method for consistent part creation? Jigs? Setups?

And what parts does one start with? Neck blocks seem a natural but other parts?

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There was an article a few years ago in the GAL magazine about a presentation by Charles Fox on this issue. I'm not talking about the older articles (Crazy Like a Fox) that are in one of the Big Red Books; I'm talking about something more recent. I think he recommended the same idea of standardizing parts, making various models of guitars use more standardized parts, that sort of thing. The specific memory I have is regarding brace width. Why make braces of different widths when you can standardize and always have the right kinds of braces on hand? That sort of thing. You might want to look it up.

If a person doesn't want to gear up for CNC routing of parts, there are plenty of jig ideas to be had. The Kevin Ryan article in the ASIA magazine makes my head spin with jig concepts. Like I said, Charles Fox in the GAL magazine.

Thanks Don, So much to still learn and it seems I think of a new idea every 20 minutes making every 'standard' in my build process that's older than 20 minutes something that needs to be re-thought - again. Sigh. Hard to know where to start...

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If I was going to go down the CNC road, it would be to make more complex and labor intensive parts like necks, carved archtops and backs, fretboards, and inlays. Things like standard neck blocks and tail blocks are too simple to make by standard methods to justify the cost of going CNC just for those.

I don't find it hard to make consistent head blocks with a band saw, table router, and belt sander and no jigs. For tail blocks, some people use a jig to put a radius on the blocks. There are several examples in this thread: https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50059&hilit=tail+block+jig. (The one that's used on a router table give me the willies though.)

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FYI.. I settled on the 12" disc sander. It's been working great so far. I've made base plates for dred, 00 000 and tenor uke. The main part of the body stays the same, I just swap the sled it's riding on. Easy peasy.

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Interesting thread Jay, thanks for posting. Agreed, that router table set-up is down right scary, but I'm also a bit leery of that tool.

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I took the Fox course in 2004 and as mentioned he had great jig systems that utilized the table saw, belt/disk/edge sander and router table/robosander that pretty much covered the bases as far as making parts. He did espouse the philosophy of parts making to acquire an inventory for future builds.

I do that to some extent but it does feel like factory work after a while so after three or four sets of braces, head/tail blocks fretboards etc I have usually had enough.

I have thought about CNC frequently but at 4-6 guitars a year have not been able to justify the time and expense. I can make the parts pretty fast with the conventional jigs. Maybe someday. I have a luthier acquaintance that has offered to help me get started.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I’d say the toughest part of learning and using cnc in your builds is having some basic CAD skills. It doesn’t need to be full on 3D CAD skills, 2D will get you a long way. I adopted cnc after my first guitar build. It was a used $1500 machine but it got me started. I’m never gonna be a John Greven, or a Baskin....

Curious Terence, do you shape/create your neck blocks with jigs? Routers? Etc.?

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The CNC only ever does part of the job. There is always handwork involved in getting to the final product. Example below: The CNC cut the inlay material and the pocket for the inlay material. Once that’s glued in, the CNC cut the purfling channel. After that it’s all hand work. The purflings are cut and mitered by hand.

In other words you don’t just push a button and poof...

It is really fun though!!

M

I use a CNC and a 3D printer a lot to make jigs and molds. Necks, fretboards, and some inlay too. But it really isn’t an efficient machine for most things.

First is the immense learning curve. I’ve been using the machine and learning the CAD software for ten years, and still struggle. I think if I was using it daily as a part of a real production outfit I would have it down in weeks. But it’s like playing the guitar, you can have all the music theory in the world but you won’t play half as well as someone who busks 6 hours a day.

Second is the setup time. It isn’t like a table saw where you can set the fence, cut a piece, be on your way. It can take me hours or even days to draw something in CAD, figure out how I’m going to hold the part and cut it, destroy three blanks because I got some parameter or hold down wrong, and finally cut a useable part.

So I get a lot out of my machines, but there is a lot that a good jig and a more traditional tool can do better even if the CNC could theoretically do it too.


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Really like your design sense Michael.

Under no illusion that there's any real magic, other than hard work and study required and have quite a bit of CAD and 3D printing experience and just printed a sort of neck jig the other day but have not used it yet. Really fun for sure but no real CNC experience. It's something I think I would really enjoy but you know time, money and that sort of thing...

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Just found a couple uses for my 3D printing skills and am always looking for more ways to use my 3D printers. Funny, a couple times I've designed a 3D model in my CAD software and ended up just building it out of plywood etc. - much more efficient sometimes.

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One of the easiest ways to make repeat parts consistently is to use a disc sander and some simple holding fixtures.

There was a great article in one of the issues of the ASIA magazine years ago by Kevin Ryan showing how he did it with a 20" disc sander. of course you can use any size disc sander.

He makes all sorts of parts accurately and consistently such as head blocks, tail blocks, nuts ,saddles,truss rod covers, etc.,etc......

I'd love a CNC. It would be very beneficial to me. However...not only do you need CAD skills, you need basic computer understanding in the first place, so it's a non starter for me. I though hard about it for a while, for carving necks, making fb's and bridges. Just doesn't fit my situation I'm afraid.

I’ve looked into it myself. Unless you find a used machine WITH everything be aware there will be more cost than you initially think.
as far as the blocks go, I don’t see a reason to CBC those unless you are making a ton of them. I get my shape by starting w a block then I used sand paper on the inside of my mold to sand the shape into the “non square” side. After all, I’m building inside the mold. My blocks may as well fit as perfectly as I can get them.



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My neck blocks are pretty much made with a table saw and I put the radius on with a belt/disk sander jig. I don’t cut the mortise until after the box is closed and bound.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Kind of self serving but you could always outsource to someone like me. I make a lot of standard parts for medium volume builders. I have one client that orders about 25 heels - yes heels, not heel blocks or necks but heels - for his classicals about twice a year.

For something like a heel block though there's little reason to go CNC. I do make them as an option for my neck customers and if I had to guess, I'd say maybe 10% or fewer orders for necks include a CNC'd heel block.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
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Thanks Andy, and I love the possibilities your services offer, just haven't found anything yet that is consistent enough in my builds nor requires CNC, but who knows.

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I have used Andy my only order has been a few bridges.... but they got here in great shape. I’ll definitely use him again! Come to think of it I really need to contact him on the possibility of doing some necks.



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Andy does some incredible work - Birkonium is a great resource if you need CNC work done.