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I am pretty sure the option was chosen by the client more for the aged look than the tone. Since we must re-top he decided to go from D28 to D41 trim.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Yeah not saying Old Brown Glue is good or bad, just relating different internet stories which can be hard to ignore, and no direct experience.

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...and another internet story that is hard (impossible?) to ignore. I WILL NOT use fish glue on bridges based on this post. Foolish? Dunno... but will put some trust in another's experience.

...any theories on why they came loose? That stuff seems really strong....

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Just had anew thought. Any one tried wetting one surface (likely the top) before glue up? May help the glue bite on the cooked Adi.... Thoughts?

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Not 100% sure... as the necks were set with the same and remain stable. In my testing afterwards I came to the conclusion it must have wicked RH into the joint at the edges and repeated slight re-hydration and subsequent drying out of the glue joint worked it loose little by little. The neck joint is not directly exposed as it is enclosed by the shoulders so it works. The braces I think fair better because the environment inside the box is more stable and not directly exposed to environmental RH.

PS. it seems the same can be said of liquid hide or OBG.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

having used fishglue for about 15 years without any problem though on bridges I still use HHG.
I have seen joints fail from high humidity but I think in that situation any glue would have failed. Any water based glue will be
tied to humidity. Tite bond is a curing glue and once cured will not ever be glue again. HHG and fish glue are reamalgamable and will become
glue again with heat and moisture.
Know the enviriment the guitar will live in and you don't need torrified brace stock to get the benifit . I have done a few with both Torrified braces and top. I prefer the raw wood braces. It is just another color on the palet for using in a guitar. Of the few failures I have had I can relate it back to a bad gluing technique. You can't shorten the clamp time. 12 hr min on fish glue 24 hr on torrified wood.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

OBG is 192 gram strength. It dries just as hard as HHG. It just takes longer for the glue to fully evaporate the moisture into the wood.

I've used it to joint the tops and glue braces on the 15 or so torrrefied tops/torrefied braced guitars I've done. So far they're all working fine.

Sorry, I don't think I was clear.

IMO, the torrefied top will sound better if you also use torrefied braces.

I was underwhelmed by the torrefied top/non-torrefied braced guitar I played.

WRT to aged look, the torrefied braces will match the look of the top a lot better than non-torrefield braces.

Again, not trying to pretend to know what I'm talking about and perhaps the people in the thread below are referring to a different type of OBG? I've seen Dan Erlewine use Titebond's version and know nothing about it real world but hey there's another internet opinion for your consideration...

https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... hp?t=80162

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Why would anyone care what the braces look like on the underside of the top?

As for knowing the environment, that's what got me worried. The two I am building now will go out to Austin TX. I've only ever spent one week of my life in Austin but it was the hottest most humid place I think I've ever been too with the exception of Richmond, another furnace of a place to live.

Don't see LMI's yellow glue mentioned much any more but what about it as an alternative? I remember their old white glue and think I remember it losing favor for some reason but I may supplement Fish glue with the LMI yellow when my current Titebond original runs out...

https://www.lmii.com/glue/2957-lmi-yell ... -8-oz.html

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I think I've seen that thread before. Yes, I believe they're talking about Old Brown Glue. To my knowledge, Old Brown Glue is the only one called, OBG. All the rest are just called liquid hide glues.

As the OBG web site says, for the glue to fully dry the wood needs to absorb the water contained in the glue. It says that if you leave a blob exposed it will remain gummy as the glue forms a film that prevents the evaporation of the glue.

I haven't noticed any dried glue joints that I would call, flexible, or soft.

I'm not a proponent of Old Brown Glue; I just understand what it is. It is not the same product as Franklin liquid hide glue. It is a "purer" product than the Franklin product. The Franklin product has a number of additives; Old Brown Glue just has urea. I don't use either one, because I like to make my own hot hide glue and add in my own amount of urea, if I need a longer pre-gel time. But if someone wanted to use a version of bottled hide glue instead of cooking their own, I would recommend they use a fresh bottle of Old Brown Glue and follow the instructions on the bottle.

The whole "never gets hard" thing referenced in the other forum? I would write that up to an isolated bad experience with a bad batch. It is not an overall characteristic of either hot hide glue or Old Brown Glue. I have heard more of that sort of thing when it comes to Franklin liquid hide glue, however.

My pecking order:

1. Regular hot hide glue. Add urea, if needed.
2. Old Brown Glue, if fresh and instructions are followed.
3. Franklin liquid hide glue? Only if I have no other options.

Very interesting discussion everyone! Glad to hear the perspective from all the different users and wood/glue combinations.

I'm a fish glue user. Built approximately 100 guitars over the past 10 years using it as the main glue for braces and for my bridges (regular tops and torrefied). I've been very happy with the results. I'm only aware of one bridge joint failure (non-torrefied top) and not even sure that can be attributed to the glue.

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
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Just a thought... I decided to go ahead and use fish glue after all. I had recently gotten a brand new bottle from LMI to replace the Norland bottle I bought about 7 or 8 years ago - just in case. Nice that LMI sells them in smaller bottles. But I digress.

What I am thinking is, when clamping up the braces wouldn't it be better to leave the squeeze out in place and perhaps even take a small artist brush and brush on a coat of shellac along the glue line? If we thing that Fish Glue is strong enough and the best choice for torrified wood with the only downside being that it is reversible with humidity then would that not protect the glue joint at it's most vulnerable spot for humidity to sneak in?

Or is the problem that humidity sneaks in through the wood anyway and this point is moot?

Thoughts?

Dumb idea then? It's ok you won't hurt my feelings

I was thinking of that idea because I remember reading that Alan Carruth used HHG to glue in his side reinforcement tapes and then coats them with a coat of shellac to protect the glue from moisture.

If torrefied wood is hydrophobic why not use a slow acting high strength epoxy to glue the braces? (Horrors! Perish the thought!) How often do you want the glue joint of braces to be "reversible?

For gluing a brace, it’s more than reversibility. If one pops loose, anything other than HHG or fish glue requires cleaning the old glue off before regluing.

Ok I am resurrecting this thread becasue I'm getting close to gluing the bridges on these two.

Whats the verdict? If Fish Glue is the best choice for gluing braces on torrified tops does that also make it the best for bridges? I have used FG on the bridges of a few guitars, maybe 5 up until I started hearing the horror stories. But I've yet to have a problem with it. But in the case of torrified wood is it the best option still? Or is the bridge foot print big enough to overcome the short comings of gluing to torrified wood and something like HHG is acceptable?

And epoxy.

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Pat