Official Luthiers Forum!

Several years ago Black Acacia was taunted as the reasonable priced option for Koa. A couple years ago I bought 2 sets of highly flamed Black Acacia, Aussie variety for $135 per set. A little over a year ago I bought a set from DonW with what I would call good flame for $110,. I believe it was Tasmanian. I was quite pleased with all three sets. Recently I have been shopping for more and am shocked at the price increase. For equal quality and figure now I see an average price of $230 a 100% price increase some how seem inflated. I can see 40% due to fuel cost but 100%, personally I don’t feel has be justified by the market.

To our member vendors, Please understand I am taking no swipe at you. I understand you don’t set the market price, and I have never received anything from any of our brethren that was not worth every penny I paid for it and more.

I am just finding it hard to fork out $200+ for something I paid $100 for in the fairly near past.

Supply & demand, plus the cost for shipping. Plus, the folks over there in Aussieland and Tazzyland are charging more. They are seeing the demand become higher, and are therefore able to sell for more.

Believe it or not, what Rick and I sold was barely above our cost....hardly made anything on it. The shipping was almost as much as the wood itself.

Also, people are beginning to realize that it's no longer considered a "substitute for Koa" as LMI originally marketed it. It's an extremely good tonewood all on it's own without the "substitute" label.

Look at This Wood and tell me if it isn't a great looking wood. It sounds just as nice...

Don Williams38805.5811111111

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I am sure Don, because what I got from you was averaging in $130-$140 range by most back then. I Know the market demand has grow but the jump is a bunch. Oh well! It looks like another bite the bullet time

[QUOTE=Don Williams]

Look at This Wood and tell me if it isn't a great looking wood. It sounds just as nice...

[/QUOTE]

Yep I saw those when you first posted them...Too die for pretty

Did you ever do anything with that special personal reserve billet you showed on your site? Man that was some beautiful stuff.

[QUOTE=MichaelP] Did you ever do anything with that special personal reserve billet you showed on your site? Man that was some beautiful stuff.[/QUOTE]

Yes. I put in on the shelf to be sliced someday.


It's going to be an OM for me someday I think. Maybe an all-acacia OM. Who knows.

I'll sell you a set for $400.....


...kiddin'.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

THUBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

Michael... you are right... for sure.... but along side Koa the Acacia is going up at a slower pace. Koa is off the map expensive.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

yea but Koa is truly endangered or at least most of the old growth is gone. BA is not that way.

Curly oak is lookin' better and better, ain't it?

[QUOTE=CarltonM] Curly oak is lookin' better and better, ain't it? [/QUOTE]

Perhaps...but try getting someone to BUY a guitar made of oak....they just won't do it.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Curly Nara


with any luck this is on my door step tonight MichaelP38805.7296412037

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] Koa prices going up have a lot to do with black acacia going up but not as fast as koa....yet. [/Quote]

Are you sure... I thought BA was a substitute for Koa? I guess I always thought it was Koa driving the market..


[QUOTE=Hesh1956] I see mohogony sets at $600 now too for highly figured stuff. [/quote]

Do you mean for those sets of blister quilt sapele? Or true mahogany? I think sets for "The Tree" might go that high -- and if you find some of those I would grab them.. They are going to do nothing but rise in value.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

That curly Nara must be worth a few hundreds! MMMMMMMMMMM!

1.5 hundred   but hard to come by. but I know where there is one set available...Hua Zootman

yea but Black Acacia and Koa are not on the Cites list
BRW isMichaelP38805.6931828704

It just seems that Koa is rising much faster than other species. And I think since BA looks so much like it and is related it is getting pulled along.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Michael it wasn't quite two years ago when I had some of that really high figured sapele. I was selling 3 sets for $375 and free shipping. Look at the price now. About 5 times higher. So yes demand raises the price on all ends starting with the logs. Don't forget that the really primo zoot usually goes to the veneer mills. So high figured logs to be sawn into lumber are not that plentiful and comand a high price. Also the waste factor in hardwoods is much higher. I know because I fill a lot of contractor bags with scrap exoitics every week and I'm sure the other vendors do to.
Nice looking set of curly Narra

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

[QUOTE=MichaelP] yea but Koa is truly endangered or at least most of the old growth is gone. BA is not that way.[/QUOTE]

Michael a lot of the old growth BA has now gone as well and what is left has many commercial and environmental restrictions that must be over come before it can be accessed. Once a logger does have access, they then must find "that" log as most blackwood trees are plain straight grained.

If they do fined "that" log, then they can expect as low as 20% conversion because coupled with high figure often comes high gum vein presence. Also, in this species, branch intersections run very deep into the log and really screw the grain. These factors make high figure, clear and 1/4 sawn sets quite rare.

I am sure that you are thinking that these factors were all present back when you paid $110.00 a set so why then the sudden change in price? In a word "Ebay"

Ebay has created a world market place and has allowed buyers access to products in places never before accessible without an air ticket. This factor has dramatically increased demand on blackwood stocks, so much so, that most wood cut suitably for guitar sets before commercial and environmental restrictions were introduced has now been sold. And of course back at the mill, they are now receiving much high demand for new product so they price accordingly for EVERYONE.

And just as a foot note, whilst LMI may have pushed BA as a Koa substitute, I can assure you that we Aussies have never considered blackwood to be anything less than world class premium grade timber in it's own right and a substitute for nothing, if anything, a good deal of feedback puts BA as being tonally superior to Koa.

High figured blackwood has always been recognised here as special, since white settlement blackwood has been used to construct very high end display furniture and veneers, I guess that is one of the main reason why it is now in short supply.

Cheers

Kim

Yep. I love the stuff. That's why it pains me to ever sell any of it. I'd rather put it into a guitar myself, or even a parlor guitar if the wood is small in size than sell it. I'm selling a few sets in the future, but the really really nice stuff is being selfishly hoarded by me.

Here's a piece that is going to be a Size 5 for myself...with a nice redwood top.


and this one is going only into a guitar for me...not even a customer can have it. Call me selfish...

Don Williams38805.8649305556

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Yeah, Kim pretty much summed it up. It's not like we can just go to the lumber yard and buy great quality blackwood down here, we have to hunt around for it, and when we do find some the guy selling it knows exactly what you guys will pay for it, and charges us accordingly. And you guys thought this stuff grew on trees? The early settlers pretty much cleared all the real good stuff a century ago. I'm sure there is still a lot of great blackwood down in tassy, but as much of it is growing in pristine wilderness areas it's best left untouched for future generations, we can at least learn something from the mistakes of our forefathers.

I got lucky last year and bought four sets of nicely figured blackwood for about $Au230 for the lot (that's about $US40 per set). Three sets of sides don't exactly match the backs (slightly lighter in color and a little more figure in the sides), but for that sort of money I ain't picky. I guess that was pretty much a one off deal.