Official Luthiers Forum!

In good time, a discerning person can ... well ... discern someone's experience based on their contributions in the forum. That is the best judge of one's chops online. "Reputation" is overrated, because it tends to become an umbrella. I happen to know a very well recognized luthier that commands huge money for his instruments, and uses a belt sander for more guitar-building functions than I would ever admit. Point being ... plenty of well-known builders that don't necessarily use the best of breed approaches to specific methods. Discernment ... it's not easy.

That's the problem in my view that what we have here now requires time and participation to start to get a feel for who's full of it and who's not. We've been to this movie before on the forum and most professional Luthiers in the past had little objection to using a real name and many preferred it thinking that there might be some lurking business out there reading the forum.

Again I think that people should do what they want and I always default to that. I guess you could call me the Liberty Looffier in that respect. And I completely understand many if not most of the justifications that the hobbyist members have to not exposing themselves to the possibilities of identity theft, etc. I'm an old enterprise application integration software guy who understands VPNs, encryption and most of the strategies these days for computer security. My work included physical security of classified networks too when I represented GE in the Beltway region. So I get that folks want to remain safe and sound.

Where I do respectfully disagree is anyone who is participating in the trade as a professional Luthier either building and selling and/or repairing should already be accustomed to having some information out here about you/us. I am and it's gotten me some great dates (just kidding I stopped using Match.com years ago.... ).

But seriously some of you like our Cat friend (notice I capitalized "Cat" out of respect and acceptance for your wishes Tounces ) have a public presence as Tounces indicated. Most have web sites with your real names and the same tired old BS about having had a passion for wooden musical instrument since when your Moms met your Dads and the drive in restaurant on a Friday night. But I digress.

If I were a newer participant here and someone was telling me what I should do with the valuable personal property of mine or someone who entrusted it to me I'd want the ability to not have to spend a lot of time over time here to rate multiple posts from someone to determine if I think they are credible or not. I would instead want to Google their arse (rest of them too) and read about their shop, products, endeavors, etc.

To be clear I respect everyone's choices but I do feel like anyone who participates in the trade on a commercial level should not have any issues with providing a real name and I agree with Brian and others on this too. A name in a profile is fine too or a link to one's web site, what ever fills in blanks so that we have a way to quantify the quality of someone's suggestions.

Being the sort to specifically seek out solutions I have an idea and a suggestion that could if folks like it help here with both professionals returning and everyone feeling a little better about being transparent about who they are.

If Lance would agree that in keeping with this forum's intent, purpose and "culture" since day one this is a friendly forum. If any schmuck ever flames anyone here in a malicious manner that Lance would agree that when it's brought to his attention to take it down so that there is no trail that might embarrass any of us and potentially harm our commercial business prospects and reputations. In addition one warning to the offender and then off with their membership, winter is coming if they continue to flame folks here. Facebook seems to give my friends only one warning before pulling memberships.

It's been my experience in life... that you often have to give something and that this is not a bad idea in order to get something. My suggestion sets forth an expectation that no one here participating will ever from the moment it's employed have to worry about a negative exchange forever enshrined at the end of a Google search on the Internet that harms their business, reputation, income or prospects. If it goes south not in terms of the topic matter but on a personal level it gets deleted and maybe, if it continues someone will be looking for a new forum after getting booted here.

That's my suggestion and again the problem as I see it is the playing field is skewed here with where HeavyMetalVomitDude is currently free to flame others with little chance of retribution or anyone even knowing who the hell they are. This is a deal breaker for many pros, understandably so.

One last comment and this is not directed at anyone specifically as none of my comments were. If one is willing to list themselves as a "professional" in their profile how much harder is it to quantify that with a URL for their business or a blurb about who they studied with, where they went to school, etc?

And I lied and wanted to add one more thing. What seemingly constantly rubs me the wrong way here and I see time and time again from the same few people is this. It's not necessarily a professional Luthiers job to fix every pos that comes into our shops. Some things are too far gone, not meant to be serviced and/or provide zero learning ability to anyone unless you are from Saudi Arabia and into using bone saws....

It's usually the case that the economics are not there either. A $1,200 repair on a $300 pos...

The answers provided should be along the lines of "this is a non serviceable neck joint and if you want to learn to do a proper reset find an old Harmony beater on eBay, the very same techniques used there will reset a Martin too."

But no time and time again folks are even encouraged to beat their heads against an unserviceable wall, learning nothing of value at all and what happens is some of them lose interest in and if they complete the thing they now have a ****** guitar that no longer needs a neck reset and no-one wants it anyway. Guitars are often like onions too with the full extent of the issues not known until one is deep into it....

Dave Collins and I are not unlike undertakers pronouncing (kindly and with empathy... ) guitars DOA near daily. We often suggest listing them on eBay as "project guitars" for the bone saw set, bring your own fake blood, etc.

What's so hard about simply saying it's great that someone is interested in our trade and that they would be far better served doing repairs on a different, serviceable instrument?

Anyway peace to all of you, thanks for your thoughts. It's my birthday today, 63 wow how did that happen.

Wow hesh, it sounds like with all your loofiery experience that you are only 39 Mazal tov and congratulations on turning 63. Many more happy birthdays to come !!!

I know that forum.... I no longer visit it at all for the exact same reason.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I can be found everywhere on the net as B.Howard, luthier. I am in business so hiding is counterproductive from most aspects. And if I followed all your recommended security protocols I would have little time for the business of guitars.

I am sorry about your misfortunes, but I suspect there is more at play than you mention or may realize..... I have operated this way, under my actual name ( well first initial, last name and not hard to find....) for over 10 years without any such problems. I cannot even imagine what photo of me or my work could be published on a business (or other) site that would lead to assault. And if anyone should hide based on your statements it should likley be one of the only other real names here, my friend Hesh as he is outspoken on certain topics in the personal realm (as am I).

Now I can see the allure of a non business person wanting to remain anonymous in a lot of aspects, like instagram, twitter or whatever.... but i see no need here. What would be the point? If you use a fake handle on the rest of the web your real name will mean nothing here to those from outside.....

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I have considered doing this many times......

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

The fact that you see no need does not invalidate other perspectives.

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George :-)

ermmm....yeah...

you know, digital stalking goes 2 ways...since I haven't pulled out the big guns of warfare I guess I'm only guilty of observing...

that being qualified, the owner of that forum is a real tool...I've seen posts using his nick here and there (O.K., since I'm not a person of power where I've seen these posts I can't get access to the IP address (among other identifiers that able to be observed) I can't verify it's the same person behind the handle), and yeah, he's a tool...probably a card carrying member

This is also the problem on Facebook groups. Everyone is in the open and some advice there... oh boy.

Brad


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Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars

And here we are, on the cusp of bashing another forum and it's participants, within the safety of this forum, anonymous or no...

I'm way more interested in how a particular poster behaves than what they choose to title themselves.

HeavyMetalVomitDude is ok with me as long as he behaves well. Even if he isn't always right. Even if he isn't a he, for that matter...heck, even if he's really Hesh, lol...

I would refer to remain "Toonces" for the reasons I posted, which are important to me. If this bothers more than a few of you, then I will be happy to change to my real name -- but I will restrict my posting to congratulatory posts on OLFer's guitars - which I enjoy doing from time to time. I'm not that involved here anymore, so it isn't a real loss and there are quite a few super knowledgeable folks who post here all the time - so again, not much of a loss to the community. PM if this bothers a lot of you, then I'll change my username.

I've always used "PeterJ" because I think you non-Italians would have a hard time pronouncing Liccardello....

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Peter

I used to post on other forums under contrived user names. I found it brought out a snarky meanness to some of my messages because I was some small amount of anonymous. And I wound up unfortunately hurting people with things that were meant to be humorous.

I decided not to hide behind pseudonyms anymore. I didn't like who I became when I used them. That doesn't mean that I'm bothered when others use contrived names, but I do take messages from them less seriously.

The only time I expect to be treated with the utmost respect is when I'm giving lessons on how to drive. I'm the authority on the subject.

Thanks for sharing that level of honesty, Paul. The point of my earlier (much earlier) post in this thread was to focus at this aspect of human nature. We tend to be more polite online if our online behavior is not shrouded in anonymity. Online anonymity can let people slip into being less polite, less forgiving, meaner versions of themselves.

Lots of examples to the contrary, to be sure. This is a tendency, not an absolute. But it is a tendency.

Snip

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I honestly could care less who uses their name and who doesn’t. It doesn’t really cross my mind that someone is “hiding” as has been suggested. I mean I suppose one “could be” hiding, but why should I even care? If one is going to go into hiding joining forums is sort of counter productive anyway. I don’t use my full name but I do and have used the same SnowManSnow on every forum I’ve ever been on ha.

This is a good forum with good people as far as my experience goes, and I’m grateful for it and the folks who “inhabit” it.

On the suggestion of forum “rank” ... the only merit I see would be as it would pertain to the classified section. Otherwise ... meh

Peace y’all:)


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I’ve been in the ministry for 28 years at least part time and mostly full time. One thing I have learned is: Not all advise is wisdom.
You’re right folks are quick to offer what they know. Technology has given everyone a voice, which I’m neither defending or attacking...


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I suspect, and no offense is intended, that you are not and have never been as attractive at Ms. G. ... and thus never dealt with what comes with the issue she chose to explain. In your first sentence, you passively allude some "other" issue she has in her behaviors, implying complicity that she brought these unfortunate attacks upon herself.

I'm not here to question other people's motives or reasoning when it comes to their decisions to share the level of their personal details. I'm sure I'm snarky here or there - rough edges as an old shoe.

Unless someone lives under a rock, identity in this modern time isn't what it was 20 years ago. People can make what they wish of that. I don't agree with Hesh's perspective, but I respect that he has it and can discern the difference between sharing it and making it clear that it ultimately comes down to the individual to make their own choices. And not while passive aggressively implying someone's behavior as prerequisite for having brought on the issues aforementioned.

Mostly I find what people are doing, and how they are doing it, and how they are thinking about it luthiery-wise is what I'm here for. So for example, if Toonces wishes to make an argument about runout and tops ... honestly I could care less his name, what he thinks he's accomplished, and so on. I'll hear the perspective, the points made to support the perspective, consider it, and be done with it. As I've heard said, and it is sage advice, "take what you want, and leave the rest."

Proud of my grand father on my dad's side, a Major in Patton's 3rd Army who fought his way across Europe in WW2. One of the first card carrying antif's before they had a modern day talking point right wing meme for it. My grand father on my mom's side was a Navy Doctor that healed Americans that were wounded by Fascist. Their descendants now live in Virginia in and around Charlottesville, where the very first death on US soil took place by the Nazi's on August 12, 2017 some 70 years after the war.

Maybe next time you can think of the impact such a statement like that might have, especially in a forum that has rules against it.

you know, I did regret making that point and have gone back and edited it....check your PMs for a real history of that group that has been around a LONG time

Please tell me the next thread is on kids these days (and their music).

I thought that WAS your real picture!


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When you say "that guy is a real tool, he must be a member of XXXXX," that's not making a point. A point is part of a reasoned argument in support of a position. In contrast, you were trying to be funny by equating "tool-ness" with membership in that organization. And, of course, you offended somebody here who doesn't share your disdain for that organization, and now you regret doing it.

The regret is a good and appropriate thing to feel, but don't try to gussy up the failed joke by saying you were "making a point." That's giving it too much credit.

If I were to say "that guy is a real tool, he must be a member of [plug in your political party]," some folks here would find that both funny and true, but others (including you, I imagine) would be offended by it. We would probably all get along a lot better if we didn't try to make those sorts of jokes on this forum.

I think my name is visible on the left when I post but I don't throw my name around online at all. I prefer to stay under the radar online, expose only what I want to expose. I'm not in business and guitars are just a hobby for me so no need to have my name out there at all. I guess I don't see what difference it makes to anyone else what name I use. Call me Luthier1975 or Blake, how does that affect anyone else's use of the forum?!? I don't get how it is disrespectful to not throw my real name around, if we meet in person I will happily introduce myself but online I just don't get it.