Official Luthiers Forum!

As you know ASIA is a guitar guild and we are looking for new members. Especially younger people. It is time we get people with dark hair and flat tummies
Please consider joining and sharing your experience and for first time members we will give you a special
$35 for your first year
also iv you have an article you would like to contribute please send it on to
bear_acker@hotmail.com
for Membership
asisartisans@aol.com

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I was a charter member of ASIA and frequent early contributor to Guitarmaker. I rejoined last year, and have now let it lapse. After a year of reading it, I can say you have nothing for me in that once fine publication.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I was a member,supporter and monthly advertiser for years. Even wrote articles on a regular basis. There is nothing in this organization for the pro or semi pro and that makes any benefits for the hobbyists even less.....

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

We want to improve the magazine and ASIA and we need new to include the youth into the organization. We are working on bringing that into fruition . Soon we hope to have a presence on social media.
We can only improve with new and included membership.
In order to improve we need more active membership. So we are open to suggestion. The articles , we rely on the membership and we hope to find people to share what they learned.
We know we have to change and that is the reason for this post.
I was appointed as the new president and the first thing I did was make a co president Micheal Dickinson . We are looking to take the organization to a new place and bring back interest. We do need younger people to get involved and want to see more articles in a more technical line .
So with your help and indulgence , we hope to get things turned around and hope for a bright future. ASIA is where Lance announce the OLF and it was a good starting point. We need to bring that back.
We are also looking for help in the social media area so if anyone has an interest in helping in that direction we would be happy to talk to you. We all started somewhere , and we need to keep that door open for new builders. We are all getting gray and older and we need to pass the torch to younger people interested in sharing and learning

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I have been with ASIA for about 20 years and can see there have been changes both good and bad. ASIA helped me in many ways. The symposium was a great place to meet people make friends and learn from fellow members about product and techniques.
Without ASIA I don't think I would have had as successful as a career. I have now built 275 guitars and learned a lot of repair techniques and have a waiting list for guitars and classes.
We need these kind of organizations to help share info and pass on experiences. Without sharing of the knowledge and experience a lot of information is lost. There is a need to good repair people out there and the demand is strong. I hope you take these thought into consideration and help ASIA grow into the future to have a base to share information and to meet and talk to other people that share this interest. Some may disagree but this is needed and we need your help

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John (and all ASIA members, of which I am one)—

One of the struggles for any organization at this time is that people below a certain age are just not joiners. Whether it is a club, or a church, or a guild, or whatever, there is a generational difference in whether people join anything as full members. There are exceptions, but in general, younger folks do not want to pay dues and commit to long term obligations like attending regular meetings, serving on committees, etc.

The good news is that people in those younger generations will participate in specific “one-off” activities that matter to them. So, if there is a way to encourage participation by younger people in specific things, without expecting them to shoulder what they see as the burdens and hassles of membership, you can see more young people get involved. But if you are expecting young people to become full members and take on the responsibilities of continuing the day to day work of any organization, you will probably wind up being disappointed with the turnout.

In the organizations to which I belong and in which I participate heavily, we are trying to stop equating growth with life. Getting smaller does not always equal death for an organization. Sometimes, the organization just has to get better at, and have a better and more positive attitude about, being smaller. And perhaps the younger generations will shift their perspectives as they get a little older. Or not. Either way, the folks I hang out with want to further the mission of the organization within the reality we currently inhabit, instead of putting off our mission until we recapture what we were (i.e., the size we were) in the past. The past is not coming back, so we try not to let our nostalgia stop us from being relevant in the present and the future.

I hope this has some value for you.

I think Don makes a good point. I would also say that you absolutely definitely need to get on social media and Instagram is where it's at. You probably should still be doing Facebook but for the young people it's Instagram.

that is a plan
we are looking for someone that can help us get there

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I am a member of the Michigan Violin Makers Association. Yes it is not a national group, but there are national and international members. There are many new younger members. Even taking on elected positions like treasurer. The key to.this.seems.to be location. We have bimonthly meetings, and they have shifted from the Northern suburbs of Detroit to Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is like a violin maker Mecca.

So it seems like the event, the meeting might be the draw. That's the part I started going for. We have world renown presenters, and the topics are varied. I skipped the last meeting on bows.

Maybe like Brian said in another post, you must find out what your audience wants?

_________________
Why be normal?

that is the purpose
things are changing and we need to get back in touch with the people that are interested in luthery

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I don't know all the answers. I can tell you that today's kids think that Facebook is for old people. They move from platform to platform very quickly in order to be cool. Instagram and Twitter are about to be old hat for them. They are using stuff I've never even heard of (I ask them what they prefer).

When ASIA started, it was mostly pro builders and repair guys who were fed up with Tim Olsen and the Guild of American Luthiers (mostly with Tim). So the first 5 years of ASIA's publications were top shelf info shared by the giants of the time (not talking about me). Guys like Michael Dresdner, Roger Sadowsky, John Monteleone, Bill Cumpiano, Grit Laskin, and so on. I don't see that anymore. What I see in Guitarmaker looks like the same lame, boring stuff I saw in American Luthiery. Essentially - time to raise the bar.

I can't even begin to figure how to deal with the sheer volume of stoopid on the internet. Too many self-appointed experts and dumbass YouTubers thinking clicks are the true measure of success. Speaking frankly - this place is getting that way. I could move over to the MIMF, but don't like places that I can't even visit to see if I like them before registering. Call me weird. Anyway - all I can do is what I am doing now. Too much work stacked up, and no time to sit at the bench. I want to share my 40 plus years of experience, but I'm not going to beat people over the head with it.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Hello all,

I've been considering ASIA for some time, read all info on the website, but did not think I quite fit in as I do not qualify as a proper luthier. I have had no formal training in the trade, but have a lifelong (I'm 62) love affair with the guitar, which I learned to adjust and repair from day one. So that's nearly 50 years of learning from the writings of John Carruthers, Dan the Man and Frank Ford. Upon retiring from my day job (I was a web development team head) I became a full-time guitar tech and repairman, with a growing and positive local reputation, and I'm loving every minute of it thanks to the help of many of you folks. Yet, because of my lack of formal credentials, I hesitated to join the ASIA, feeling slightly out of place. I'd be the first to admit I'm not a proper luthier.

I figure I'm not the only person with that kind of background who views ASIA as kind of a guild reserved to proper, real luthiers. Maybe I'm wrong, but as the website gives no clues as to exactly who can join the association, that's the impression I got. And that prevented me from even seriously considering joining.

I hope I have been wrong and plain guitar repairpersons are welcome and needed to share. If this is indeed the case, careful rewording of the ASIA's mission and goals in the website might help attract more people to the fold.

Yet, as many have already said, I believe strongly in collaboration and sharing of expertise, in any trade. That's how I learned, and I'm mighty grateful for that.

So, what do you think... I hope I've not opened a can of worms as I figure you folks have already discussed the matter over the years.



Pierre

_________________
Pierre Castonguay

many you mentioned are still involved but not to the degree they once were. We need articles and this is a good way to find out what we need to do to meet that requirement.
One thing is that without people being involved it is difficult to see demands. I do want to see a repair section where we share repair techniques anything to forward the shared knowledge
We are looking for someone that can help take us out there to the youth and knows how to do the twitter or what ever is out there in social media. I want to thank all who have participated in this thread. And if anyone knows someone or would like to get involved please do so . We are here to help

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I need to get out from under this rock, heres me thinkin’ Facebook is for the kids. Thanks for making me feel even older than old people. Sheesh!

B

_________________
My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

It could be worse - you could be as old as dirt! - Clay

A crazy idea to revitalize A.S.I.A. might be to make membership free, make magazine subscription sales separate (let members buy individual issues at a higher "news stand" price) , go digital with the magazine to reduce costs.
Free membership would get you a quarterly online newsletter that would tell you about upcoming events, advertise magazine content to push magazine sales, try to entice participation, and also provide some space for ad revenue.

Several years ago when the ASIA symposium was held in Westminster, Md I visited the exhibition hall and met some of the people from this forum (John Hall, Bob Gleason) and some from the MIM forum and I bought a dozen soundboards from Brent Cole (ASW). I also met a number of other people in the industry and other makers from around the country. Overall they were a friendly gregarious bunch who made me feel welcome even though I wasn't a participant in the symposium. I doubt any of them recall me being there. I am not much of a "joiner" and now that I am retired I rarely leave the Hollow, but it was certainly an enjoyable afternoon talking with people in person.

Moving to social media for ASIA or GAL is addressing a symptom versus the actual cause of declining interest and membership. Attempting to port a website and magazine to social media WITHOUT A CHANGE TO ROLES AND MISSIONS will be about as meaningful as instituting a secret handshake.

The primary reasons for existence of these organizations - dissemination of the arcana of luthiery and advocacy for the craft - is effectively gone. ASIA and GAL must either adjust their mission statements towards something their members and the public see as worthwhile, or face extinction as anything other than social clubs for a diminishing membership base.

I take no pleasure in presenting this view, but the world has changed and organizations such as GAL and ASIA must adapt or perish. I am ever respectful and grateful for the work done by Mr. Hall and others in years past, but that work is all but over should those organizations choose to continue down a path towards irrelevancy.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I am curious as to why you would say that? Are you saying these organizations should abdicate these roles to YouTube and Facebook? Although I can understand that in this era where Facebook requires too much mental concentration for the average instagram and snap chat user I think it is still necessary to have institutions that can validate or debunk the "arcana of lutherie" espoused by individuals in the public fora. And who better to advocate for the craft than those who are actively involved in it?
But I could be wrong - old eyes may not see the future as well as those of the youth.

There are four possible roles for quasi-professional organizations such as GAL or ASIA:

o Provide a conduit for craft or trade information NOT OTHERWISE AVAILABLE

o Establish, monitor, and enforce standards of practice within the trade

o Act as an advocate on behalf of the members of the group (e.g., lobby external influencers)

o Act as a social framework

Let's look at each role to determine whether it is actually necessary or - indeed - desirable or even possible:

- Provide a conduit for craft or trade information NOT OTHERWISE AVAILABLE. The 'NOT OTHERWISE AVAILABLE' is the key here. The world has changed...there is no scarcity of information, and trying to control that torrent of information by somehow rating reliability or compliance with some sort of organization rubric is a fool's errand. This one topic - the assertion that information must be curated by agenda-driven fact-checking or information evaluation organizations - is worth several threads, but my conclusion is that the rate of generation of both 'good' and 'bad' info is increasing in a near exponential fashion, making the curating task so Sisyphean in nature (if rock grew larger and mountain steeper at every dawn), that an organization assuming this task would not last long.

- Establish, monitor, and enforce standards of practice within the trade. This particular horse was beaten to death long ago. I could go through a discussion of market versus regulatory forces, but I believe there are only a few here that might support the notion that an ASIA or GAL built around protecting the interests of a few master luthiers would be a workable notion in today's market.

- Act as an advocate on behalf of the members of the group (e.g., lobby external influencers. The recent changes in enforcement of CITES and relevant US law suggests that this role is still a valid one; however, an organization focused on lobbying to create favorable conditions within the marketplace or relief from onerous regulation looks very different than our current ASIA and GAL models.

- Act as a social framework. This might be where ASIA or GAL would be advised to establish a Facebook/Instagram/Twitter presence, but charging for admission is an impossible task, given the emergence of look-alike, function-alike groups via Facebook Groups with a few keystrokes. Again, the lack of success WRT most organization-run forums speaks to the difficulty of achieving success in this role.

In summary, I see one and only one viable role for ASIA and GAL: as industry lobbyists. This suggests a fundamental restructuring of both organizations and a dramatic increase in dues or in volunteer activity to effectively accomplish the tasks associated with a revised mission statement. As a first step, combining the organizations and defining that new mission and roles statement seems reasonable.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

the input from Woodie seems valid but any organization needs to be in touch with its members and that is why I posted. I don't know how old you are woodie but thanks for the input.
it takes about 10000 hours for any one to become expert . in the old day it was apprenticeships and guilds . With mass information of the internet there is a great deal of information but so much of it is bogus so the organization has to carry credible information and gain a reputation. There were past little attempts of bringing ASIA to the modern era and that is what we wish to do.
We are looking for someone that is familiar with the modern social medial platforms. Chris Herrod started a FB page but there was limited support. so now we have to over come that obstacle. We will keep you all abreast.
thanks for the participation

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I don't know if the following helps you or not, John, but maybe it will. Here is a snapshot of what kind of member I am in ASIA, and what I get out of my membership.

I do not build or repair guitars for money. I currently only build (no repairs, with odd exception), and do it for enjoyment. I might someday sell what I build, but I need to get a bit better at it first. I will never rely on building or repairing for my income. It will always be a side thing, at best.

There may be some who feel that people like me (amateur enthusiasts) have no business being members in organizations like ASIA or GAL. Regardless of the feelings those folks hold, I am, in fact, a member of both, because the rules of membership allowed me to join. If/when the membership rules change to exclude folks like me, ASIA and GAL can kick me out.

The main things I get out of my membership in ASIA (true for GAL, too) are: I receive a periodical in print format, and I have the opportunity to attend an in-person event every so often (the Symposium for ASIA, the Convention for GAL). As a practical matter, I cannot attend the GAL Convention, because it is always somewhere out West. I do not always attend the ASIA Symposium, but I have done so on occasion, when I can squeeze the long drive into my schedule.

The periodicals provide me with useful content, and standing alone, they justify the membership fees. The differences I see in the two periodicals (GAL vs. ASIA) are significant, but I find value in both. The Symposium has been a great opportunity to get some in-person education and buy some wood where I can examine it myself.

So, I get value out of my ASIA membership. I like the idea of ASIA continuing its mission, getting comfortable with being smaller, and just focusing on doing a good job at what it already does. As I said above, I think the whole "growth = life, getting smaller = death" view is toxic. That's not a free pass to just keep doing the same old things, but it is a free pass to quit worrying about membership size. Focus on your mission, and do a good job at something that matters. Membership size will be what it will be.

In terms of adding value to the organization, I am not the sort of builder who should be writing articles for publication. I'm still trying to learn how to do this well, and have no business trying to teach others. I'm also not good at managing an online presence (I have people do that for me in my day job).

However, I will gladly volunteer to edit/proofread copy for the ASIA periodical, or any online content. No offense to those who put together the ASIA periodical, but I do think you could use some help along those lines. Just PM me and I will give you my e-mail address. You can send me the copy, and I can turn around any editing/proofreading pretty quickly.

I've never joined either group because I don't really know that I would fit what the groups are. Or, frankly, what they really are at this point. This is a hobby for me. I don't feel qualified to write content or at least the kind of content that isn't freely available on the internet. I share my approach, tips and failures in various corners of the internet not pretending like they are coming from any place of authority. I would read articles that are more professionally motivated but I feel like much of that would not really apply to my needs.

I'm in my mid 40s (a Gen-Xer) so I'm not a greybeard but I am far from identifying with the youth movement. It is hard to know if I have some perspective of both the old ways and the new world or if I'm just stuck in between and don't really understand either. I guess I'm facebook.

I feel like the craft is in a transition point and doesn't know what to do with itself. I've been reading the forums for about 15 years (and old discussions from even earlier) and it seems like there have been shifts. They have (in my opinion) gone from people finding each other on the internet and stumbling along together to try to figure out what works and doesn't work. Then linking up with more trade professional types of information; now there were people with real world official experience being shared with the masses. GAL/ASIA type information was now trickling into the internet and the forums felt like a real community where the craft had found a new conduit to share itself and grow. I was amazed to discover places where professionals freely shared information and welcomed the inexperienced hobbiest into the fold. It made the craft feel accessible. It was really neat that a community of people, of varied levels of experience, could help me realize my goal of making an instrument from scratch.

Slowly it started to morph into this notion that the internet was like a free correspondence school and one could read discussions, watch videos and suddenly they were qualified to start making and selling custom guitars. I think that put a lot of the pros off along with having their advice corrected by someone who went to YouTube University. As those people began to leave the forums and retreat back into their own circles, the information freely available on the internet has begun to become diluted or at least unchecked and clarified. This only opens the rift further.

I think ASIA would need to decide how it wants to move froward and what it want to be. Getting on instagram is probably going to alienate older members and probably won't boost the quality of the information either. It will end up going the course of the forums. There will be a shift and it will not be to everyone's liking.

What does ASIA want to be? Why exactly does it want Youth? What exactly does it mean by youth? Regardless of age, what type of person does it want to recruit (pro, hobby, aspiring pro)?

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I am a grandmother, Mr. Hall, if that indicates something about my age.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

With any organization.... it must be decided what it wants to do better than anyone else, and capitalize on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm in my well ... way past half life. It would be nearly impossible for me to ever be a grandma like Woodie, though I've heard I can now be whatever gender I wish to be .

I was a GAL member and eventually outgrew that in the disruptive tsunami that was the Internet. Forums, self-organizing and agile in content, blogs, articles on web sites. Suddenly skilled people from Frank Ford to you-name-it are in articles, blogs, videos, and every other low-barrier-to-entry media. Not to mention millions of photos, how-to's, and so on.

I appreciate anyone's desire to contribute to a community, so my above words are not intended as criticism of any medium or cause. But rather a reality that my horseless carriage requires little feeding, no pasture, covers great distances with ease, and provides a level of traveling comfort that only the wealthy in fancy carriages once had.

I’m a member of both GAL and ASIA. I have found the publications of both invaluable. While a member, I’ve gone from beginner to professional with the information from the publications and other members contributing significantly to my learning. I have been to a couple of the ASIA gatherings and enjoyed meeting the folks I have heard of and admired. I really appreciate the willingness of people to share their ideas and method. It has helped me immensely. It’s as if there are no trade secrets. Experts are willing to share what they know with no hesitation. I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t treasure these opportunities. And then, there’s the sense of community...

If you’re not already a member, you only risk $35 to try John’s offer. It costs a bit more to go to the symposium, but I think it’s worth it.