Official Luthiers Forum!

Last year I received some very helpful information from members of this forum regarding possible toxic chemicals used in guitar manufacture. At that time I was in a dispute with a particular guitar maker whose identity I didn't reveal because the case had not been resolved. This has now been wrapped up and I wish to report back on the results. https://zagerdisputedocs.tumblr.com/ will take you to a blog I created which has all related materials I submitted to the Better Business Bureau which also has a record of the dispute but without the documents. I hope this will be enlightening to forum members and I thank you again for helping me work it out. I will not be responding to further comments.

Thank you for sharing that! It's good information.

What an ordeal. Glad it finally worked out.

I always thought Zagers were built abroad and just set up in the USA.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

"suffered a complete loss of over $2395"

I can't imagine they are paying more than a couple hundred dollars to their supplier. That's one expensive set up!

Pat

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Pat

edited them...

they need to completely redacted

in summation: are you really that sick in the head to say such things?

I am surprised the buyer couldn't figure out that the guitar was a problem within the first 30 days. To have it for 6 months, put pick scratches and a ding in it and eventually get all your money back (plus the shipping paid both ways) is quite an accomplishment.



"suffered a complete loss of over $2395"
Pat wrote:
"I can't imagine they are paying more than a couple hundred dollars to their supplier. That's one expensive set up!"

Yeah, but they had - his money - now they have to find another fool to buy one of their guitars, and the shipping back and forth probably doubled their investment.
Not every guitar sold offers a good value for what you get. Although the instrument might not be a good value to me, to someone who wants an instrument that is easy to play - which is their main selling point - it might be. Amazon sells Mohawk clear precat gloss spray lacquer (102-0410) for $21.58 . It's the same stuff Mohawk sells for $6.77. I'm sure Amazon sells a few cans, especially to low volume users who don't bother to look any further.

I'm glad you got this worked out, stebinus.


Last time I looked a little further, Mohawk wanted another $16.58 for shipping.

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George :-)

"Last time I looked a little further, Mohawk wanted another $16.58 for shipping."

If the information is up to date Mike Plummer is you local rep. - 253-222-8453, mplummer@mohawk-finishing.com . He should be able to get Mohawk supplies for you.

It seems even as posted that there are two sides to this. What bothers me more is someone using this site with the sole purpose of trashing a guitar builder/company. If his post was posted on the site I manage I would have deleted it. I do think the BBB was a fine venue for his dispute.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

I tend to agree. This isn't really the appropriate forum for these kinds of complaints. I am not making a judgment on the merits.

IMO this is a builder's forum for builders to talk to builders. Pros, semi-pros, and amateur alike are welcome. But all builders none the less. There are forums from buyers to review gear, talk about their experiences, and give warnings if appropriate. Places like AGF. Just not this one.

I agree with Rhett and john about the use of the forum. Can we get this deleted? At the end of the day the complaint really should've just been between the bbb, manufacturer, and the OP. The OP is using this forum to smear.

Count me in on the delete this thread list.

Reading through the "complaint" stuff, well, it made me feel like I should have an application process for customers before I sell an instrument to them to weed out potential problems before they start.

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

If the OP's intention was to smear the seller I think it was a "fail". The sellers only failing was to recognize that the buyer would never be happy with the guitar and to take it back within the trial period and before it was damaged. That the seller took it back after it was damaged, and eventually repaid the buyer in full for an item the buyer damaged is more than most sellers would do. Many would not take it back-period!
The BBB has no teeth and can't make the seller do anything, and many people ignore it entirely. It provides a venue for whiners to complain and sellers to respond - that's about it.
The only value to this thread is as a cautionary tale to avoid customers that question every detail of the building process. Liquid hide glue most likely starts out as ground hide glue, and I've never heard of a case where it off gases toxins in the air.

Franklin liquid hide glue contains ammonium thiocyanate (<5%). Franklin classifies this as a hazardous chemical and an eye irritant. I am not a doctor but a chemically sensitive person probably does not want to be exposed to this. Does this chemical off-gas after the glue has cured? Who knows?

I agree, In his case it is a cautionary of what you could run into. I might have bailed before ever shipping the guitar and suggested that the buyer find a local place to get the guitar. Still I would rather see the post from a builder talking about an anonymous customer to get the cautionary tail.

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http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

One would think that if this was really causing irritation it would have been stored well out of the way in its' case...not played enough to put pick marks all over the top.

A very good point.

I also don't see the utility of posting a player/manufacturer dispute thread on the OLF.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

no one wins a pissing match
delete it doesn't belong here

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it