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I've been sharpening my own chisels for a while but its always the same ....I have to do it over and over until its finally evenly sharp! Either I give up and buy a new one or it comes out ok after a few hours of stress ...
Do you guys know of any place that offers a sharpening service?
Am I the only one here that has a problem sharpening?

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I had a problem until I purchased a Tormek
Andy

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Yeah, I have researched that optioin also....but at this time I can't spend that kind of money for a sharpener!!

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Every time I've had to struggle with something it's turned out I was doing it wrong.

My problem was that of holding a consistent angle. I had a rough time sharpening chisels and plane blades to luthiery standards until I made myself a jig out of some scrap wood. I then found a 16-inch round piece of ?-inch plate glass glass for a working surface. Using increasingly finer grades of wet/dry sandpaper, it doesn't take long to get a great edge.

My jig is just two pieces of wood hinged at the ends with a lock-down knob to hold it at the desired angle. It works but It's ugly. I'm probably going to make a variation of this one.

If I weren't such a cheapskate I'd buy one of these.

I'm sure some of the pros around here will chime in with some alternative ideas for you to consider.

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D..

Peter:

A good honing guide should keep your chisel square and set to the angle that you set. What abrasive system do you use?...is the surface perfectly flat? Are you flattening the back first to produce a burr across the entire edge? I found these to be important elements in the process.

I use glass plates and sandpaper of grits from 220 to 2000 (scary sharp method)and have no problem with even sharpness. Once the bevel is set and I get the edge perfectly honed through 2000 grit I strop it with green rouge on leather to produce a mirror finish. During use, I then occasionally tune it up on the strop unless it has obvious deterioration of the edge...then it's full treatment to get it perfectly honed again. I do the same with plane irons and they produce long, thin curls.

Keep the faith. You can do it if I can...it takes a bit of practice but once learned it goes quite easy.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Flat back, stroke the angle on the front til the burr turns over on the back, a pass or two on the back to remove the burr, then strop the front...I use an old topsider shoe tongue and green rouge to strop...I think there's been too much of a "Zen" attitude about sharpening...just read a few of the woodworking mags...you'll see what I mean...the sharpest chisel I ever held belonged to a house framer who sharpened on site with a piece of sandpaper stuck to the bedrail of his pickup and stropped on the tape measure holder of his tool belt! He said, "Bottom line is, tools are meant for WORK...!" That said, I still would like to have a Tormek!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Brian burns has a book called double bevel sharpening which is used around a General sharping jig or I think he gives directions on making a holder.
Use some type of sharpening jig (veritas is good also, but I like brians method better) and the sandpaper on glass or a table saw top (anything real flat) works very well.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Sharpening is a funny subject. It can be stone simple [sic] or quite complicated..Simpler as you get better. There are many methods that will work. Sandpaper-on-glass 'scary sharp' is one, and has
the advantages of 1)being inexpensive 2) producing a potentially good result 3)not having to worry (much)
about flattening the cutting medium. On the downside, because the sandpaper 'gives', it can be difficult to get
the back as flat as you might like.. On a chisel, for instance, w/ a truly flat back, you have a very precise tool- without it, not. But there are exceptions..

I learned to sharpen w/o a jig, and that's one way..
the 'freest', i guess. It's a nice discipline imo, but for some akin to water torture. Jigs can be fine, though
potentially limiting.

One absolute in a post attempting to avoid them:
you don't need an expensive machine to produce sharp,
durable (just as important) edges; in fact it takes
more skill w/ the machine.. (for the durable part)

It shouldn't take hours to sharpen a chisel, even w/
a big nick, all by hand. I suspect that both the back
and bevel side of the tool are quite rounded, and you're 'chasing an edge'. This is common, and easily unlearned.

A couple of vastly useful references, one for specific
techniques, and one for overall approach:

Lee, Leonard: The Complete Book of Sharpening.

Woodwork magazine #53, October 1998: Scott Nehring, pp72-76. Back issues available from the publisher.

In response to your original post, there are folks who
can and will sharpen your chisels and plane blades,
but as it's so function specific, learning to do it yourself is best..   Carey












\

..maybe a 'Zen' approach to sharpening is not a bad thing.

It doesn't imply dawdling, just the opposite; attention.

With all due respect, a chisel sharpened on a piece of

sandpaper et c can briefly seem sharp because there is

actually a thin burr extending from the cutting edge.

Take a couple of cuts, then check the edge..The balance

between sharpness and durability can be interesting.

Peter,

Whatever you do, don't send chisels out for sharpening! I'm not sure what you are doing wrong in your sharpening technique, but I encourage you to spend whatever time is necessary to get it right.

Your chisels should be super sharp ALL the time. Keeping them sharp is safer, because the duller the blade, the harder you have to push, and the harder you have to push, the more likely you are to damage your work and yourself.

How sharp? Razor sharp! Literally, sharp enough to shave. (The hair on my left hand is always half gone from testing.) Once you get used to razor-sharp blades, you'll never accept less!

Keeping your chisels sharp all the time means sharpening or honing them often. I find that a Marples blue handled chisel needs to be honed at least once or twice when carving a set of braces on a top. Otherwise I have to start pushing, which is not what you want. I'm sure an expensive Japanese chisel would last five or ten times longer, but you are still honing very regularly. If you send your chisels out for sharpening, will you realistically send them out that often? Most people wouldn't. Most people would end up using their chisels well past the point of dull, until they don't cut at all. That's dangerous for you and for your work, not to mention unpleasant.

It does not take long to hone by hand once you learn how. Ten to twenty strokes on the 1000 grit stone, followed by another ten or twenty strokes on the 8000 grit stone, takes two to three minutes and will sharpen anything short of a nick. A nick is a little more effort, but still shouldn't take anything like several hours (or even one hour).

If you don't have your sharpening technique down, I suggest getting a good guide. They're relatively cheap, and ensure you are getting a proper angle.

A final comment on the Tormek: I have one and love it, but I spend a lot more time sharpening by hand. The Tormek is great for nicks and introducing a hollow bevel, but it takes a few minutes to pull out and set up. That hassle makes me less likely to sharpen. The waterstone, on the other hand, takes thirty seconds to pull out, dampen, and start sharpening. It's easy enough that when your chisel starts to lose its edge, you don't think twice about taking thirty seconds to hone it. So, if you are thinking of investing $400-$500 in a Tormek, a better use of the money may be to buy a couple good waterstones and take a class in sharpening handtools. There are a lot of great woodworking schools around that teach a one-day sharpening course.

Fine post by Kelby. If you're in CA, I give a strong recommendation to Jay van Arsdale. A great craftsman, teacher,and true inspiration. See daikudojo.org Carey

I just use a Stanley guide, cost about $10 in the UK and the scary sharp method, I then finish up on 10000 grit water stone. The edge is then stropped on my old cheap wet/dry sharpener where I have glued thick leather with honing soap to the edge of the slow-rev wet stone (I just couldn't get on with the wet stone system) until I have a mirror finish. When I start to feel the blade dulling in use usually a quick strop will put the edge back on, at worse a run on the water stone. It's not zen or even difficult, just takes care.



ColinColin S38811.2035069444

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Ther are as many philosphies on sharpening as there are people on the
world.

Some comments.......I thoroughly recommend a honing guide of some
sort..I use the Veritas Mark II and reckon its the best thing since sliced
bread. Im also a great fan of Japanese water stones. I usually run my
chisels and plane blades over an 800 grit stone followed by a 1200 and
then 6000 grit stone. The back of the blade then gets a quick qipe on the
1200 stone to remove the burr and then it goes over a leather strop. All
my blades and chisels get a primary bevel worked in and then a 2-3
degree secondary bevel which does the cutting. The Veritas honing guide
makes this easy with its adjustable cam mechanism.

Cheers Martin

Scary Sharp is nice, works well, gives you good results, but aint' that cheap when you consider sandpaper cost over time.

I've invested in a basic set of waterstones, and they're wonderful. Like Colin, I use a simple, cheap Stanley honing guide, which works fine. Still on the lookout for some scrap leather/old leather to turn into a strop, since I'm curious to see what that would do to my finished-on-stones chisels and plane blades.

Sharpening is a bit fussy, but it's not difficult. That is, if you've got good steel blades to begin with; cheapie stuff will sharpen up great, but will go dull on you very, very quickly.

I have almost every variation of sharpening systems known to man. However the most effective and simplest is: Veritas Mk. II jig,about $50: Norton water stones-220-1000 combo and 4000-8000 combo. About $80 each. they are 3" wide, 8" long and will last a long time.For an extra $82 a 320 grit diamond plate keeps them dead flat. Not really cheap, but very good and simple.Since really sharp cutting tools are as important a component in luthiery,it is a relatively small investment. In fact, however, I am one of those lucky people who can get consistent razor edges freehand. I use the jigs and Tormek for restoration of bevel and prepping new stuff.PS-I'm a big believer in secondary or micro bevels.PPS-if you want to send me your two most troublesome chisels,I'll rework them and send them back so you have samples.I know I am not the only person here that can do it right ;just my offer to help.Miketobey38811.3984722222

Persevere Peter, it is worth learning.

I always struggled with sharpening until I began building bamboo fly rods about nine years ago. Now we're talking about a craft where .002 in. can mean the difference between a rod that casts well, and one that should be used for a garden stake! Bamboo also contains high amounts of silica, which as you might imagine, is tough on cutting edges. So I was kinda forced into learning to sharpen block plane blades, since I had to do it every couple of hours. I started with stones, but switched to paper and a glass plate early on and have never looked back. A couple of things that helped me become competent at sharpening:

A good guide. I've used several, but my favorite is the new Veritas guide from Lee Valley. Very easy to set the blade angle and square it up. AND it has a simple method of creating a micro-bevel.

Micro bevel. Don't leave home without it! The edge of your tools will last WAY longer, and will take less time to sharpen with a proper micro-bevel. I can touch up a chisel I'm using in just a couple of minutes, including mounting it in the guide - I just touch up the micro-bevel. (The Veritas guide facilitates complete and accurate repeatability)

Flatten the backs of your blades and chisels - they won't ever work really well if you don't.

The only time I use a stone any more is with a completely new blade, or when I need to take out nicks. I then use a coarse diamond stone - works really fast!

I personally think "Scary Sharp" is very economical. You can get very fine grits (1500, 2000) for about $22 for fifty sheets. I've been using the same sheets on my glass plate for about 3 months, and can probably use them for a couple of more. With the 2000 paper, I've never found the need to strop.

There are as many ways to sharpen as there are folks doing it. And like Mattia said, it's a little fussy, but not difficult. You can do it!

-Mark

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

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Peter,

To answer your question, my local Woodcraft store will sharpen any blade or chisel you want. They even let me test out a Tormek before I bought one. If you really want to send them out, I'll sharpen 'em for free using my Tormek. Just include return postage. It's not a bad idea to learn, but there are only so many hours in a day.

John

What does it cost to do bad work with dull chisels?

One of the best things about the Tormek,or for that matter, any very slow grinder is wheel diameter. With the Tormek 10" wheel, you get a very subtle hollow grind which makes for very easy secondary bevels and re-sharpening that doesn't gobble up your tools.Several of the jigs do great things with gouges and "V" tools.Either of them, Tormek, or Veritas jig makes for very consistent bevels. The abrasive isn't so important as the consistency,whether from experience freehand, or from a good jig. The flat honing surface is crucialThere are sharpening projects for which I use only my large Norton diamond plate with lily white arkansas and hard black arkansas bathed in mineral spirits. Waterstones groove and gouge very easily.I've only had my Tormek for a couple of weeks now,but it is a real workhorse. I'm maintaining about 20 planes a few spokeshaves and heaven only knows how many chisels. If I didn't have so much sharpening to do, I might get that first guitar finished. MT PS I finish up with hand or Tormek power strop. Just use care not to round over what you worked so hard to get with the flat abrasives.Also-the pathetic results of tool addiction.I have not yet learned to sharpen saws,but that is next.Miketobey38811.6192476852

[QUOTE=Carey] ..maybe a 'Zen' approach to sharpening is not a bad thing.

It doesn't imply dawdling, just the opposite; attention.

With all due respect, a chisel sharpened on a piece of

sandpaper et c can briefly seem sharp because there is

actually a thin burr extending from the cutting edge.

Take a couple of cuts, then check the edge..The balance

between sharpness and durability can be interesting.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you...the "Zen" comment was more directed to the current "philosophical" rhetoric going around woodworking circles...ie, "the still, soft sighs of a long thin curl of aspen parted by the insistent bevel of an impossibly honed plane blade"...and all that dribble... I remember an article in FWW years ago about an oriental "master" who sharpened his plane blade after EVERY stroke because, "the blade wasn't as sharp as it could be"...I guess that dude never worked under a deadline...and I left out the micro bevel thing too...someone after me mentioned it...it's important because you don't continually hone the entire bevel, just the part doing the work...the Veritas jig that I use has a eccentric cam thingie (that's the TECHNICAL term for it ) that allows a 1 or 2 degree microbevel to be added after the primary bevel's done. I attended a ball-and-claw foot carving workshop several years ago taught by Mario Rodriguez out in New York...he had a very practical approach to sharpening, as well as some VERY sharp tools...like he said, "consistency in just a few elements is the key...flat back, consistent bevel/microbevel, mirror polish"....you know, on a regular woodworking forum a thread like this would turn violent! Everyone swears by his or her way to sharpen! There's lots of good info on the OLF and the offers to sharpen for free reflect the character of it's members!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

No ZEN for me. But I do confess to a distinct pleasure in producing a work-fit razor edge on a tool.Sometimes the art can overwhelm the purpose. But then reality awakens and it's back to making curls in wood.MT

The Veritas Honing Guide at Lee Valley is now dropped in price to $36.50, because they have a newer one they want to sell. With one of those and a couple of
DMT Diamond Sharpening Whetstone's (get one fine and one extra fine), you'll get good consistant edges on firmers (straight chisels.)

That's about $100 for the above mentioned stuff, but you would pay that in service fees to have a set of chisels sharpened a few times.

Now, for sharpening gouges, I woulld love to have someone sharpen mine with the correct equipment.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

[QUOTE=Rick Turner] What does it cost to do bad work with dull chisels?[/QUOTE]

Another quotable quote from a sharp wit. Rick, we're glad you are here!

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

When I was first starting out I tried to pay to have mine done. The guy at the sharpening service said "sure I do chisels, but I won't do yours". Meaning that I really needed to learn to do them myself. It was great advice as I strop an edge on them almost weekly. I couldn't imagine paying for that.

I use the drum on my thickness sander to grind a hollow bevel (I don't own a grinder), then the scary sharp method with a cheap honing guide to hone a fine edge. Only takes a few minutes.