Official Luthiers Forum!

Fitted my first JJB pickup a few days ago.
Managed to superglue my finger to the wire as I got the last one on, inside the guitar.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

. . . so, you got disconnected from the guitar somehow, or did you type the above with one hand? Tell us about the exit strategy on that one, Colin. I fear I might be there someday.

Slowly tore it off pushing the wire with the other fingers of the same hand and taking a some of the insulation with it, leaving some thickness all round on the wire (my own guitar - works fine)
Was a trial of the JJB 330 and I was pleasantly surprised with it's clear reproducion and performance.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Here's one I've been kicking myself for all weekend. Noticed it when fitting the back on Friday.



The back is not off center. It's perfectly on-center. The heel block must have slipped sideways during glue up and I somehow got through the whole process of kerfing the back, laminating and gluing solid top linings and side reinforcements without noticing it being off center. I have zero idea how I didn't notice it earlier, considering how large the discrepancy is.

I enjoy most every part of making guitars, but if I'm honest I'm not super looking forward to removing the linings and repositioning the block. There's actually plenty of meat for the neck mortise, and to support the neck structurally with it in its current position. But I can't tolerate it looking like this.

I would live with it. Kick myself and move on. The amount of rework required to fix it is not worth it IMO.

I agree with Ed. I've missed on a couple of them. Since I cut the mortise later, it doesn't matter.... .

Just did this one yesterday..

I cut the top plate of an archtop backwards...

In other words I made an unintentional lefty.

What added insult to injury was the fact that I started cutting it a week ago and broke the bandsaw blade mid cut...

So it sat there for a week while I was waiting for a new blade
The cut stopped at the lower bout Where it didn't matter so if I realized it I still could have saved it at that point-Oh well....

Why not a double cut archie? Blaise Mast did a double cut acoustic in the 1820's - 1830's.

Josh, I don’t get what I’m looking at in your photo. I see the offset, but the block itself looks to be just slightly taller than the kerfing.

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Brad Hall
Mystic Dawg Guitars

Josh

I think I'd reach in there with a sanding block and knock the corners off the neck block. Taking the sharp corners off the block would take away the lines your eye uses to judge center.

I can see why it is upsetting, your work is so clean and nice the least little thing can be a distraction. I suffer the same obsessive compulsive tendencies.

Rounding the corners might be enough to draw attention away.

Brian

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

As long as the neck sits on the block I don't get too excited about it. The obsession with symmetry is a relatively new thing. Lute makers and many other instrument builders didn't worry about it too much.
Center lines are highly over rated. They can be useful during the construction process, but if they go slightly astray that doesn't doom the instruments ability to make music. I have become less obsessive (or perhaps more careless) as I have gotten older.

I've given up on symmetry and perfection. Yeah, I just can't get them! But sometimes they can feel a little cold. Too perfect. I don't ever have even overhangs on violins, but neither did del Gesu, and they just call it a characteristic, and have a hard time even forcing themselves to give in to it.

I couldn't even tell what Josh was showing there. I still don't understand the block. The quartered Cherry looks nice though, and the work is so clean.

I can't even begin to number the times that I have been dealt grace like you were given Brad. And just like you, I didn't see it until I messed up! A couple times I looked at the fingerboard for the little baroque guitar. It has the little tabs on it. I saw someone do it, and they added the tabs after. I thought why do it that way? So I cut it out with the tabs in place, but in reverse, on the belly side of the line. I noticed at least twice before that I'd have to pay attention there, because the stock was about twice the length. Didn't help. I could have even looked at the drawing first?

Now I can add the tabs separate like I saw was the way to do it.

"Come on Ken, I'm trying to get your attention. Come on..... Oh well."

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Why be normal?

That's actually not a bad idea..

Josh

I like the way you made your side braces the same width as a single piece of lining.

Nice looking piece of cherry

Ed

Brad, the photo is a view from about the area of the eventual soundhole, looking up at the heelblock.

I use what I guess you'd call a reverse-spanish-foot shaped neck block, so theres a thick extension projecting from the heelblock on the soundboard side. This extension runs all the way to the upper transverse brace. It's sticking out into the shot and blocking the view of the heelblock, making the heelblock look short, I guess. The whole heelblock is a little over 3.5" tall on this instrument (00-size).

Just went back through my phone and found a pic of me gluing the heelblock in that shows it from the top/soundboard side.



I can actually see in this pic that my block centreline and the mold centerline seem to be lined up right. Which doesn't help me work out where I went wrong.
Glued with HHG, and this shot was taken long after the glue tacked up and clamps were applied, so I wouldnt expect it to slide much at this point.




Thanks for the kind words Brian and that's a very good idea about knocking off the corners, thanks, I'll try it before I do anything more drastic.



Clay, I agree its purely a cosmetic thing, and an 'inside the box' cosmetic thing at that. We're only talking about 1/8" off center, so there is a ton of block realestate still for a neck mortise and the function of the guitar won't be impacted.

Just thought I'd contribute it in the spirit of the dum-dum thread, where even simple glue-ups can go wrong!




Thanks Ed, appreciate it. I really do like cherry for steel string guitars (and furniture for that matter!). Especially after a few years when color darkens a little.



Ken, you're right and I do like to see 'the hand of the maker' in a hand built instrument, rather than absolute perfection. I should probably let this one be water under the bridge and just move on!

Josh, if you look at that photo real close it looks like the joint between the sides is offset from the centerline. Maybe that's what happened. I'd just move on, you're probably the only one that will notice it.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

The joint in the sides is definitely offset, in fact it's offset by almost 3/16" in this case; I make no effort and spend no time to get that join on center since the entire area ends up covered by the neck heel. I consider the "true" centerline to be the mould center, and I work to that.

These cherry sides are pretty pliable, and I had them in and out of the mould a few times during glue up of the blocks, linings etc. After more thought I actually think what may have happened is a combination of slight slippage during glue up (small enough that I didn't really notice), combined with the entire side/heelblock/tailblock assembly rotating slightly in the mould before I 'locked' the shape in by gluing in the linings etc. A couple of less noticeable small errors accumulating into a larger one.

I just glued all the braces onto a top using the wrong radius dish, 15' instead of 25'. Everything glued fine so I'm going to just go with it.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

I had this happen to me once.....

What I did was use my Fein oscillating tool to cut down one side of the head block-thus establishing a new centerline with a smaller block, and then adding the missing kerfed lining-looked like nothing happened.

I woke up late and rushed off to work and locked my keys in the truck. Well at least I have a bicycle here so I can get home.

Thanks Brad, that’s an approach I hadn’t even considered.

Brand new gold top, full setup, new pickups, coil split - all went well till the very end, finishing up the setup and slipped with a tool and dinged the top just in front of the bass end of the bridge. Did what I could but it has to go back to Nashville tomorrow so I get to fess up to the owner

Edit: Owner said don't worry about it, just the first of many. He's a good guy, they're not getting a lot of work so I knocked his bill down to basically just parts.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Well, it's my turn.....
Got to the shop this afternoon and found the side I bent yesterday wasn't bookmatched. I know you can't see both sides at the same time, but it bugged me enough that I had to try again. An hour of flattening with my wife's old iron. Back in the bender sandwich. I'll check it tomorrow. It's Chechin. I used water and windex and it bent readily.
I'd heard of this happening to others but first time for me.

Today I was wondering why there was so little differentiation between the binding and the purfling. Gee, I say, I hope it’s more clear when I sand it. After I got it taped up...I realized there was little difference because I had taped it on purfling side up.

You are in good company. Romanillos mentions in his book a guitar Torres built with matched sides bent "wrong".
I did that on a set of BRW sides I laminated with epoxy. With laminated sides there's no going back. They hung around the shop for a couple of years until I decided to build a guitar to try out some new ideas. I matched them up with a back that needed a little bit of wood patched in and put the thing together. It turned out to be a good sounding little guitar. Now when I pick it up I don't even think about all the little flaws.