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The results we can accept from finish application would not work for "as is - off the gun" finishes. After the finish is applied and cured the real work begins - smoothing and buffing to bring up the sheen. I'm sure I would have to upgrade the cheap HF jamb gun I use if I was wanting an acceptable finish "off the gun".
I still prefer Nitro, but there are times and places where spraying isn't possible for me to do. That Enduro-var can be brushed offers a non spraying option that isn't too onerous - it is relatively easy to sand. Being solvent free allows me to use it in my living space. That is what I find to be it's principal advantage. And it does look better than Latex paint.

I think so too

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

That’ll do!!

M

Beautiful finish, Colin!

That looks fantastic, Colin. Thanks for taking the time to photograph the process!

This came along in my YouTube feed tonight. Not to contradict Tim's input, but at 4:25 the General Finishes guys mention that Enduro-Var can be brushed or sprayed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0NlH2Ac33w

[/quote]
What is the finish that’s easy, non-explosive, won’t kill you (immediately), doesn’t turn blue in bright light on dark wood....??!
[/quote]

Easy. BriteTone

What is the finish that’s easy, non-explosive, won’t kill you (immediately), doesn’t turn blue in bright light on dark wood....??!
[/quote]

Easy. BriteTone[/quote]
So why ain't we all using it? Pics and schedule pu-lease.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

What is the finish that’s easy, non-explosive, won’t kill you (immediately), doesn’t turn blue in bright light on dark wood....??!
[/quote]

Easy. BriteTone[/quote]

The application info is pretty skimpy. What’s the recommended wet-film thickness? What’s the solids percentage by volume?

Thanks, M

Easy. BriteTone[/quote]

The application info is pretty skimpy. What’s the recommended wet-film thickness? What’s the solids percentage by volume?

Thanks, M[/quote]

I went to one of their demo clinics and they were quite helpful. Try contacting them.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Easy. BriteTone[/quote]

The application info is pretty skimpy. What’s the recommended wet-film thickness? What’s the solids percentage by volume?

Thanks, M[/quote]

Here's a detailed treatise on finishing with BriteTone:

https://brown.guitars/workshop/crystala ... -schedule/

For photos and a vid, look here:

https://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/sh ... wood-Tenor

https://www.facebook.com/10000044657065 ... 644423085/

This is my finishing schedule:

Crystalac BriteTone - Application and Finishing
BriteTone is OK over CA filler, epoxy filler and shellac
It can be its own sealer over bare wood; sand the first coat with 220 or 320 if it raises the grain
Always do a shellac wash coat under the BriteTone to keep it from interacting with TiteBond glue lines
Spray with 1.0mm tip at abt 18 psi (Iwata HVLP conversion gun)
use 3-5% Crystalac viscosity reducer
1-2 hours between coats
12-15 coats over three days for approx .005 film after full cure
Level with dry 400 Abranet after drying overnight after days 1 and 2
sand lightly, no need to fully level at this point
then clean with Crystalac Surface Conditioner to promote inter-coat bonding
4 weeks to dry and cure (mfr. says a few days but we know better, don't we?)
Wet sand with Abranet 1000
wipe frequently with a soft towel to check progress
eliminate all shiny spots except for the tiniest, which will come out with a finer grit
top & back are sanded with DeWalt 5” ROS (3/32” orbit) and a thick foam pad
set the speed with Powerstat, just enough to get ROS action
sides are leveled with 3” 3M right-angle air ROS (3/32” orbit) with wet Abranet 1000 and thick foam pad
Wet sand binding edges with Abralon 1000 scrap
very light touch, just to get the roughness removed
Wet sand with Abralon 1000
top & back with 5” DeWalt ROS (3/32” orbit)
sides with 3” 3M right-angle air ROS (3/32” orbit)
use thick foam pads on both 5” and 3”
Repeat the two above steps on top & back, sides and bindings with Abralon 2000, 3000 and 4000
Remove sound hole and side port plugs and finish the edges
Machine buff with Menzerna GW16 on cotton buff and P175 on Domet buff
Final finish with Meguiar’s Ultimate after fitting bridge

http://onoukes.com

Thanks David, good info and looks like a good product.
Unfortunately UK seems to have a lack of Crystalac BriteTone suppliers so it becomes even more expensive than EV, requiring import, shipping, customs etc. so I am unlikely to be trying it.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

The costs associated with international shipping would drive it through the roof. Over here, it's the most costly WB lacquer product, and not by just a little bit. Still, the cost per instrument is tolerable and, having tried a few alternatives in that market, it's become my finish of choice because of the results.

I saw Tim's post above about EV not being meant for spraying. Surprised me. I agree it is difficult finish. So, I went back to their site, and it specifically calls out instructions for HVLP spraying. And no warnings about spraying. So what is going on here?

I think what is going on is someone from General Finishes gave Tim some non-authorized, contradicting information about the product.

Here are some quotes from the page of the General Finishes website dedicated to Enduro Var (pulled in the last 5 minutes):

**********

Enduro-Var wood finish is a self-crosslinking, oil-modified, water-based polyurethane that looks more like an oil varnish than a water coating. It ambers slightly, is highly water resistant, and is both sprayable and brushable.

**********

• Spray application: Before spraying, strain topcoat through a fine-mesh filter. Spray wet films at 3-5-mil thickness. HVLP: 1.1mm-1.3mm spray tip, medium air cap. Verify tip sizes with your equipment supplier. See our general guide for spray tip sizes. Keep your gun at a 90° angle, 6-8" from the surface. On large, flat areas, use wet, even patterns 6-8" wide. For narrow surfaces, reduce the fan pattern to 2-3" wide to reduce overspray. Overlap each pass 25% to conceal lines. Wear a full filter respirator (NIOSH/MSHA-approved) and work in a ventilated space. Visit this FAQ for more information on spraying techniques.

**********

It could be that it is not the easiest material to spray, but both the company that makes it, and a number of OLF users of the product, say and show that it can be sprayed successfully.

I agree. It can be sprayed. Also, it’s a difficult product. U have to be patient. I believe every time I used it, I leveled after 3-4 coats. I also noticed it attached better to a previous coat than to raw wood.

Glad nobody told me about all these problems spraying EV before I started using it, probably never would have done it
I've actually found it quite forgiving, considering my amateur attempts at throwing finish at guitars, but having said this I have always sprayed bodies horizontal, and this helps.
It was the first (and only) finish I applied by spraying, encouraged originally by Laurent Brondel's use of it on his essentials range.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I like the finish when it works. But it is not repairable. And then there is that issue I had with 3 necks (delaminated) in high touch areas.

This was going to be my next finish to try. Not so sure anymore.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

Varnish isn't repairable either, many builders use and like it.
I've a repaired a sand/buff through on a headstock 5/6 weeks after the spraying with no witness lines. That might be a problem with varnish.
Took some dents out of a neck another time a few months after finishing. sanded off the finish over the area, steamed out dents. CA pore fill, brushed on and leveled E-V, then sprayed the whole neck 3 coats. Week to dry, then level sand and buff - quicker than nitro.
Woodie G reported some problems with separation IIRC - thought to be an epoxy problem, not E-V - http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53362&p=700930&hilit=+enduro+neck#p700930

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I think Fred Tellier used BriteTone a few times, but went back to Nitro.
I heard Howard Klepper and Laurent Brondel use Epiphane's varnish and
Bruce Sexauer uses Ace Hardware varnish.
I spray Nitro with a Fuji 4 stage HVLP, but I'm thinking of trying post-cat.

Brent

I've just finished buffing out my first guitar I tried with Enduro Var. Here's my impression so far:

This is good stuff, but a lot different than the other finishes I've used (FP, Rock Hard varnish, Royal Lac, nitro, etc.). I tried the foam brush approach and it didn't work for me. I got out my Fuji HVLP rig with the tip recommended by General (1.3mm), and although it worked OK, a 1mm tip worked much better. I used Aquacoat filler, sanded back to bare wood and then tried various approaches to applying the Enduro Var. My experimentation shows in the final result, but it still came out pretty good. Next time, now that I have it dialed in for my rig, should be much better.

My final approach was 3 wet coats, an hour or so apart on day one. Scuff sand with 400 and 3 more wet coats on day two. Let it sit 24 hours and level with 400 grit gold paper. Let it sit for 10 days (turned out to not be quite long enough--I'll give it an extra five next time). Sand dry through all of the micromesh grits. Then buff with the Adams Swirl Killer Mini with Novus #2 and a yellow foam pad followed by Novus #2 and an Adams One Step Pro wool pad. Finally, an Adams One Step Pro wool pad and Meguires #7 show car glaze. I used a rotisserie for spraying which worked out really well. Thanks John Hall for the inspiration.

Enduro Var levels very nicely with gold sandpaper dry, and it buffs great, but it's really hard stuff when it cures and is more difficult to buff than nitro from what I've seen so far. I had some orange peel when spraying, but I didn't use reducer and it's been really dry in my shop, and the orange peel wasn't terrible even then. I suspect that when the temp and humidity comes up a bit, this won't be a problem. The Fuji had no trouble spraying it straight from the can.

I had some problems cutting my bridge masking out. The stuff was tougher to cut with an xacto than I had anticipated, and I had a tiny bit of finish lift around the bridge area that I suspect was due to me not letting it sit long enough before cutting. Enduro Var seems to stick to the wood extremely well. But I was able to take care of the lifted finish with a drop fill of enduro var and a bit more leveling. Live and learn... My final thickness was about 4 mils--a bit thicker than I'd like, but I can fix that next time.

All in all, I'm impressed. It looks good. It didn't explode in my gas-heated shop. It was a bit more trouble than nitro to spray, but once you figure it out it's not bad. I'll post some pics after I get the guitar finished up.

Dave

Can’t wait to see the pictures! Thanks for the write-up and sharing your experience.


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Here's a quick shot--I'll post pics of the guitar when it's done.


Dave

Great info, Dave.

You mentioned waiting 15 days next time. From my experience with Endurovar a few degrees can make a lot of difference in the time. If I left the instrument hanging in the basement which stays right at 68 degrees it took significantly longer than moving it upstairs into 70 degrees. I don’t know if others had the same experience but it shaved a couple days off.

In the other direction it didn’t seem to have such an impact. For example, I tried hanging the instrument in a bathroom with a small space heater keeping the room at 74. It didn’t really speed it up that noticeably compared to being kept at 70.

I only did a handful of instruments with it though, so small sample size.

In case that helps.


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Looks great, Dave! I've done one guitar in Enduro Var (brushed, not sprayed). It was before I got my spray setup worked out. I'm looking forward to spraying with it. I know it has its challenges, but hey, everything does.