Official Luthiers Forum!

I started with "Building an Archtop Guitar" by Benedetto as that's the guitar I wanted. That started by seeing an online tutorial from a guy (Dave?) who built an archtop as his first guitar as well. Long since disappeared from the net. That was 20 years ago. I also bought the Cumpiano and Natelson book but found it way too technical and didn't care for the the free form without molds style of building. I'm sure it's been updated somewhat since but I personally wouldn't recommend it as your first book. Some great info, but definitely wasn't my go to. Between that and joining the MIMF 20 years or so ago, I learned a heck of a lot.

My first guitar still works, looks and sounds great and I'm pretty much the only one that knows where the foibles are. A real luthier would see mistakes much easier. There are some great books and a voluminous amount of information on sites like this one, youtube and others if you have the aptitude. I was and still am a tradesman in metal works so had a good basis in measurement tolerances and had a fair bit of self-learned, rough carpentry experience. Courses are great and speed the learning process up but I rarely see something really new that I haven't seen on this and other forums or available information on the internet. I started with pretty basic tools and have upgraded through the years. Just my experience of course. Good luck. Building guitars and other string intruments is very rewarding

Thank you all! I admit I’m feeling overwhelmed by the potential cost outlay for tools. Some of the lists you see online... 100 dollar rulers, etc. Amazing.

The idea of starting with a kit intrigued me. Part of me feels like that’s “cheating” but I’m sure that’s a stupid impulse. And I’ve always wanted to own a semi hollow electric... hmmmmm

I haven't read all of the replies but wanted to offer my ten cents.

Starting with a kit is where it's at, IMO. Some of the most expensive initial costs deal with specialty tools you'll mostly avoid with a kit. Unfortunately kits are really only available for traditional style guitars, and I've always gravitated towards contemporary instruments. BUT if you start with a kit, the most expensive specialty tool you'll need is a binding solution. If you enjoy the hobby after that, the world's your oyster.

That said, even though I've only built from scratch, I made it through my first few guitars with really meager tools. Like, a bending machine, blanket, binding jig, a single chisel, body mold, two radius dishes, go-bars, and less than five clamps. As long as you can bend and bind, you can get through quite a bit of a guitar using a pre-fab neck and headblock from someone like Andy Birko.

I can't in good conscience recommend getting kits from anyone other than John Hall at Bluescreek. He's just been too dear a friend and resource to me in this hobby for the past 15+ years.

As for texts, I'd recommend Trevor Gore's, "Build" if you're going to build from scratch. It's part of his two book set, but the best method book I've looked through.

Two final thoughts. First, Todd Stock, a long-time past member, used to say the first guitar is a woodworking project. Second, guitars really aren't terribly difficult in terms of woodworking compared to more traditional woodworking projects. We basically just glue everything together. If you think of the first as a fancy model, it isn't nearly as intimidating.

Don't buy tools before you need them. First rate guitars have been built with a really meager set of tools. There is no need to buy a $100 ruler. Most of us use a laminate trimmer for binding ledges, but for hundreds of years it was done with a gramil and chisels, and some still do it this way.
Modern luthiers have the advantage of buying wood processed to near finished dimensions, so a lot of the tools that are "nice to have" are not truly necessary. Again, Cumpiano can help you not become overwhelmed by all the tools you _can buy_ but don't need, and show you simple methods to accomplish the same tasks the expensive tools do.

Read http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50960&sid=b4f451d00f7a2e808a6d3ba78ec0b97b#p671691 and don't do anything I did

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

I started my first a couple years ago, and am about to release our third model. I sell enough of them to keep busy, but have no delusions about quitting my day job.

For me, the strategy was much like what several have said above, and I would support these points wholeheartedly:

1) Buy and read, Companio, Gore and Gillet and Somogyi. All 5 of those are expensive in total, but I feel it gives you three different approaches that allow you to really understand the process more than reading one, and knowing a process. Once you are done reading them all... read them again... and again.
2) Buy a "kit" that has the sides and bindings bent and includes all the other parts you need in raw form. Neck blank, fretboard blank, etc. As mentioned there are multiple sources for kits like these. I got mine from LMI. I might be tempted to cheat on the fretboard and buying that slotted and radiused.
3) Go after the guitar you want right from the beginning. It won't come out 100% like what you want, but if you do all that reading and take lots of notes and measurements along the way, when you do play that first guitar you should be able to understand why it sounds and plays the way it does. Then your second one should be significantly better.

That was my approach and the first one turned out "ok to good" but the second one turned out great. Well, great enough that people played it and wanted one, which was a success for me.

All that said, the topic of woodworking is a very big deal. The process above worked for me because I had been making fine furniture for nearly 30 years before trying a guitar. I already had tens of thousands of dollars of tools, and well-developed skills with all of them. It sounded like you will just be starting with woodworking, so take the advice of others and practice on junk wood before trying your real stuff from the kit. An abundance of patience can overcome a lack of skill in many areas.

As far as tools, I would try to find a local woodworker to befriend for the expensive stuff, and buy a few tools on every guitar build and collect them over time. Also, I try to buy the best tool I can afford when I finally do buy something new. Buying a good tool once is always a better deal than buying it multiple times over the years.

Enjoy the journey!

Yes, yes, yes. After each guitar, or while I’m building each guitar, I think very critically about what I would like to improve on the next, and what it will take to do so. Sometimes it’s a tool, sometimes it’s not. It helps prioritize expenses. In the future I’d like to get more efficient making cutaway rims, so getting the Collins Saddle Mill, while awesome, wouldn’t be the reasonable choice.


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. . . and sometimes, the new thing that makes the builds better is a specialized jig you make yourself, instead of a tool that you buy. See this thread for two examples:

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51969&hilit=Scarf+joint

This is where having some stationary tools available helps a lot. You sometimes need to create your own tools in this endeavor. I use my table saw, bandsaw and drill press as jig building tools as much as I use them as guitar building tools. And I think half the crap in my shop is put together with 1/4"-20 bolts, threaded inserts and knurled thumb nuts.

My 2 cents....

Read every book you can -Cumpianos book is great also I highly recommend Bob Bennedettos book, even if you don't plan on building archtops
watch every video you can
Join every Forum and participate
talk to every luthier and visit their shop if they are willing- you are certainly welcome to call me...845 480-6840
start building something-you will learn from your mistakes more than anything else.

First rule of guitar building: Don't glue braces to plates in high humidity. Putting the wood in a cabinet with a cheap mini dehumidifier works reasonably well. Adding a heat source like an incandescent bulb is even better. Or wait until winter when the humidity is naturally low. Of course a climate controlled shop is best, but expensive.

I personally don't recommend a kit. I would for a certain person but the OP sounds to me like this is something he wants to do for the long term. A kit IMHO is for someone who wants the experience of building a guitar, sort of, and then they will be happy with that and go on to doing other hobbies. The only way you are going to learn how to bend sides is to bend sides. If you buy a kit all you are doing is assembling a guitar like Martin does in the factory. I know it has worked for a lot of people but that's just my 2 cents. The best way to learn is to jump in and start making mistakes. If you are handed all the parts premaid then you will not be making the mistakes that you need to learn from. And when you are done with your very first totally scratch built guitar you will look at it with much more pride, mistakes and all, then if it was a kit. When you frined is amazed that you built a guitar and you tell him it was a kit then well it was just a kit, how hard is that? Not trying to start an S-storm here and again offering my opinion. OP seems to want to do this as a hobby for the long term so I say jump right in.

As for cumpiano's build method, that's the way guitars have been built and still are till this day. I started off with Sloanes book which built molds then when I got Cumpiano's and learned to work on an open face work board I never went back.

What ever method you choose to use from what ever book though it's probably a good idea on the first couple guitars to stick to the book strickly and don't mix and match methods. Cumpiano's book has updates to it on his website. The neck joint for example, no doubt that has caused a lot of grief for first time builders using that joint. William stopped using it a long time ago his self and has an updated method on the website.

I hope Travis doesn't get overwhelmed with all the differing advice. Like Jeff said, pick one method and go with it.

I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t see what his personal grooming has to do with it. If that is how he’s comfortable, what business is it of anyone...

Wait... My wife is telling me something...

Oh.

Yeah, don’t use expensive wood. Never mind the rest.



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I feel your point jfmckenna. But, as a point of clarification for the OP... when I said "kit" I didn't mean a set of ready-to-glue-together parts like a plastic Ford Mustang model from the hobby store. I'm just recommending you avoid bending (put the risk on the supplier, since there's virtually no advantage to doing it yourself) and buy all the raw, square stock you need to do everything else yourself... other than cutting down the tree and drying the wood The LMI kits I'm talking about allow you to order bent sides and bindings and then do e v e r y t h i n g else yourself... while helping you to not forget about any parts you will need. In fact, this is how I make all the guitars we sell. I have an arrangement with LMI for my own "kits" which are just a pre-selected list of raw materials. When I need to order materials for a build, I buy one of our custom kits... but I assure you, there are no short cuts in our process... other than bending. In fact, hands-on instructors like O'Brien the the same thing we do. They have custom kits that are a pile of raw parts needed to make the guitar, but virtually nothing is ready to use.

I do think it's important to acknowledge your available tools and skills, however. For example, if you don't have a drum sander, or great hand planing skills, you better buy your top and back at a reasonable thickness, or have a friend who can help. Hand planing an IRW back to thickness is not trivial.. and if you've never used a hand plane before, it will be a disaster. That's one of the things that's nice about the LMI "kits." They let you opt out of some steps that you might not have the tools or experience for.

Also, I should say that you can learn a LOT by watching the hour-long videos that Goodall and Greenfield have on YouTube. They are working at another level in terms of market recognition, but their methods are well proven. I've stolen a lot of little bits from their videos.

As you were!

No way Terrence if you don't cut the tree down yourself then you can't take credit for building the guitar from scratch

Yes I feel for the poor OP we are taking him in all kinds of directions. I like the statement above... Pick a method and stick to it.

It's funny, I built my first guitar in 1992 when LMI still had sets of BRW for like $250 dollars or something... Real expensive stuff!!!

And I remember even back then getting the advice to not use BRW on your first builds. Geesh I wish I had bought a few sets back then. I didn't build my first BRW guitar till last year. I guess I took that advice to heart

All good everyone! Appreciate the different perspectives, really. On the one hand, a kit is tempting because I lack confidence. On the other hand, I really do want to learn all aspects of it. I already own several "off the shelf" guitars - some quite nice - and so I am most interested in the craft. Not acquiring more instruments necessarily. Then again, I am the sort of learner who needs someone to kick me in the butt and tell me to dive on in!

Really appreciate the tool recommendations as well. I was watching some video last night where the baseline tool budget to begin with was between 2k and 8k!!!!

There are ways around a lot of tools. I built my first 6_violins bending the ribs on a chunk of aluminum on a wooden stand over a heat gun. It worked, and was only a little charred. I've seen some online who use pipe and a torch. You can make a laminated neck with the center board as wide as your truss rod if you don't have a router. I don't.

I have a work bench, and another table now, but for years I used a workmate. Maybe a bit too small for guitars. Lots of people like power tools though, and there is nothing wrong with that. If that's what you want, and you have the space.

I used a power tool today! My snow thrower on 8 inches of snow. That tool is worth it. I don't see any craft in snow shoveling.

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Why be normal?

At the risk of over-posting on this thread, let me throw out some ideas about tools.

To me there are essentially three broad categories of tools. Milling tools, joinery/shaping tools and finishing/decorative tools. This ignores measuring tools for the moment, including bevel gauges and angle gauges.

For most people, the milling tools are the most expensive. These are the typical "big boys" of woodworking: Table-saw, Bandsaw, Plainer, and Jointer... and if you are a guitar maker, I would throw Drum Sander in that list. The joinery/shaping tools are the trim routers (I have 6 and will order more soon), chisels, hand saws, hand planes, block planes, draw-knife, spokeshave, floats (if you like them) disc sander and oscillating spindle sander. Finally, the finishing tools (for guitar making) are the fretting tools which include a long list of things, inlay tools (based on your approach these might include tools to cut binding/perfling channels) and detailed shaping tools, including various gouges.

Again, everything above needs to be viewed against your chosen methods of construction, design needs and starting materials. It would not be realistic for me to suggest a list of starting tools without knowing what your chosen methods of construction are. But, I can say that for guitar making on a reasonable budget, I might look at this list of stuff to start:

1) floor-standing 6" jointer... anything will work, yes even with flat blades. Keep in mind that no surfaces cut on this will be visible in the final product.
2) Bench-top planer, such as the dewalt 13" (used this for nearly 15 years on every manner of furniture from side tables to 12' dining tables and spear guns)
3) Table saw of any type, assuming you are buying materials that are close to usable size. Keep in mind that not a single surface cut on a table saw will remain or be visible in the finished guitar.
4) Sturdy work-bench. This is a big topic, but having something that doesn't sway and sag that you can work on and clamp your parts to is VERY important... and could be your single most expensive tool.
5) 20" drum sander. Yes, this will draw some controversy, but if you aren't going to buy your tops and backs at an ideal thickness, you will need this. FYI, after nearly 30 years of woodworking, this was the only tool I had to buy to make guitars. You absolutely cannot run a top or back through a planer to get it to the correct thickness, no matter how expensive your planer is. The wood is just too thin at this point to survive the planing process.

After that, you are in good shape to attack just about any method once you buy the detailed tools needed, like chisels, saws, measuring tools, etc.

If you happen to be in the Tampa Florida area, let me know. If not, I would suggesting finding some local woodworkers to team up with. They are generally a very welcoming people and tend to like trying new things!

Jose Romanillos built his first guitar on his kitchen table with a simple book of instructions. We have much better resources today, but we also still have our kitchen tables.
One reason I mentioned Formica (HPL) materials is they come pre-thicknessed and prefinished and they have been used not just by me but also by a modern guitar factory. HPL sides can be bent with a heat gun, or possibly a high powered blow dryer hair dryer. Another advantage is that Formica is relatively cheap. People sometimes spend more on back and side sets than all the other parts of the guitar combined.
I still build with HPL occasionally - a recent project was a small bodied "takedown" guitar for car camping. If you don't have a "knockabout" guitar it might be a worthy low cost first project.
We all work in different ways. Some study how to do things for a long time before attempting them, while others jump right in and get their feet wet, which is one reason you are getting so many differing opinions. You have to decide what is right for you, but don't let a lack of experience or the misconception of a high cost of entry deter you.

Travis,
If you haven't already found them, a couple of other forums to check out are kitguitarsforum.com maintained by John Hall and the late Ken Cierplowski's acousticguitarconstructionforum.com (check out the success kit instructions). Lots of good info in the archives.
I started with one of John's kits and am now working on #s 14 and 15 with wood off my own property. As mentioned before, it's addicting.......

Opinions are like noses; just about everybody will have one, and they tend to be different.

I think the list of tools Terrence gave you is informed by his background in making other things (fine furniture, etc.), and the fact that most makers of such things start with the wood in a rougher condition than you will probably buy it.

I don't own either a jointer or a planer, and I don't miss having them when I make guitars. I can do all of the jointing and planing I need to do with my bandsaw, table saw, router table, and drum sander in terms of stationary power tools, and hand planes on a shooting board for specific jointing tasks (not thicknessing).

The wood that comes from any of the suppliers (for a single guitar's worth of wood at a time) will come to you mostly flat, straight and rectangular. You can work from rougher wood, but there's no need to. You will still need to get the wood to the correct dimensions; you just don't need either a jointer or a planer to get there. They can be helpful, but not essential. And a planer on the wrong wood can be "exciting" (as in, it gets chewed up and spit out).

My list of really helpful stationary power tools (again, my opinion, and like my nose, it is specific to my needs):

Bandsaw
Drill press
Drum sander
Table saw
Disc sander (with a belt sander on this, or the below tool)
Spindle sander (with a belt sander on this, or the above tool)
Router table

You can do without all of it. But thicknessing guitar backs and sides by hand is laborious (tops a little less so), and it takes decent hand plane skills and an OK hand plane, or else it goes badly in addition to being a lot of work. All of the tools save time and effort. Doing without them increases time invested, and calls on you to be a decent hand tool user, and a very patient person.

Buying used can be a huge help for power tools in particular. I got my Delta 14" bandsaw, Craftsman 6" jointer, belt/disk sander, and 16-32 drum sander all in good condition for a total of $600 from sellers on Craigslist. The total would have been much much higher buying new. If your location in NY is near a significant Craiglist market area, you could save a lot of dollars going that route.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

I'm in the very small minority who likes to work with hand tools. I was a machinist for 40 years, and that's enough machining. You can make a guitar without power tools. I'm making one now. It isn't normal, but I've never been normal.

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Why be normal?

Travis your on the right track gettin the Cumpiano book. If you are considering your first guitar to be a kit, you might get Bill Cory’s book on building a Martin style kit guitar. I found a good overlap between knowledge and instruction with both books. John Hall at Blues Creek Guitars has both Martin and Gibson style guitar kit, I built three. John can build it like you want and provides help over the phone as well as a number of YouTube videos to visual most steps. I have also taken Robbie O’Brien’s courses as well. The biggest help to me outside of the book, kit and videos was finding a local luthier to help with some of the more crucial steps, cutting the binding and purfling and to ask tons of questions, thanks MG!

However you go about it, guitar building is fun and challenging, good luck.

Yup! Bill Cory's book and a jumbo martin kit and mold from John started me down this path. Welcome to the asylum.......