Official Luthiers Forum!

Has anyone had to relocate a soundhole? I have a redwood top with a knot in it that I can`t get around by shifting the outline. If I move the soundhole toward the bridge 3/8" would it be detrimental?

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Mabe a 12 fretter?

Al

Could you elaborate on this, Al? What I have going here is a 14 fret OM, but it`s very early in the game...

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

When using a 12 fret neck everything gets shifted into the body by the distance between frets 12 and 14. I'm sure that it's more complicated, but You get the idea. I thought that the soundhole might make the flaw disappear with it's new location.

Al

That sounds like a plan! I am under the impression that the fret layout and spacing are different between 12 and 14 fret necks. Looks like I`ll have to do a little more research. Thanks, Al

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

The fret spacing will be the same for whatever scale length that you use. the shorter neck will force the bridge to move toward the lower bout. I am assuming that the soundhole would move by the same amount unless the fretboard extension were shortened. Try looking closely at the soundhole placements on Martin's site. They are always a good place to compare styles.

Al

"I see!" said the blind man! Maybe time for a cutaway...

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Coe:
Keep in mind that part of the beauty of wood is in it's flaws. I once made a maple guitar with a small bark inclusion in it's back. I fixed it with superglue, and when bookmatched it looked like two eyes looking back.

Al

Got any pics of that redwood top Coe?

Here ya go, Serge. Not much to look at other than a knot precisely where I don`t want one. When I cleaned it up for a quick pic, dark lines showed up on each side around the glue lines. Maybe time for a burst, too.

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Coe, just a thought, how about a bigger pick guard that would cover it, i'm sure i've seen it before, just forgot where i put it!

Seriously tho, if you did that, maybe you would not even need to change your soundhole placement and the scale BTSW?

This top is still lovely, whatever ya do bud, it'll look great! Serge Poirier38815.1040277778

Interesting project. What do you have there? A 5 piece top? How big of a sound hole are you planning? If you move it, remember it will show more of the rosette area between the sound hole and fingerboard. (unless you add to the fingerboard) I would lay it out carefully. Maybe going to a bigger sound hole (4" max is a good guide) and moving the hole slightly south might do it. If the knot is solid it might not be so bad to show a little of it. Plan it carefully. Just some idle thoughts on a Sunday morning.

Good luck.

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

One more thought. What scale are you planning? If it is a 24.9 and you change to a 25.5 you will gain about 1/10" in fingerboard lenght form the 14th to the 21st fret. That will move the soundhole the same distance.

Somewhere in the planning of it all there is an answer.

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Joe, Yeah, it`s a 5 piece top. I`m not really convinced that I`m gonna use it, though. Just enough of the knot is in the way that it`ll show a sure imperfection at the soundhole edge, and the dark lines on the sides stand out like a sore thumb. Thinking about the twelve fret idea with a burst around it to get rid of those lines (not enough left to saw `em out and rejoin).
The thing that really get me is the flexability accross the grain, and stiffness along it, and with the tap tone.

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

I Hear ya. It is hard to let a good top go.

To me sound and playability are number 1, Looks come in a not to close second. (unless you are making it for someone else)

I'd work with that top and see where it takes you. And yes, a 12 fret guitar might be the answer.

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Coe,

You could also use a solid-color top finish. It'll still sound good, and look good too if you get it lookin' smooth and shiney!

Carlton,
Any suggestions on the solid color idea? Getting it smooth and shiny are no problem, but adding anything to the surface will take away from the sound, no?

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Coe,

I think in most cases to cover serious visual flaws, people use black lacquer. You'd need something with pigment, rather than dye, for color, so it'll be opaque. I haven't done it myself, so I can't give you details, but there's gotta be someone here who's done solid colors. BTW, if you use lacquer, it shouldn't have any affect on the sound other than what any tinted finish would. If I remember correctly, Stew-Mac sells black lacquer in spray cans, if you want to try that. Probably water-borne finishes could accept pigment, too.

When I was at Charles Fox's class last year I asked him how he got the sweet black finish on his new Ergo guitars. He said he sprayed it with flat black Krylon and then shot gloss lacquer over it.

I tried a test piece when I got home and, by george it worked pretty well. But you need to make sure it is sanded as smoothe as a baby's behind. It will show any and all flaws.

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

If you need to move it 3/8, why not a 13 fret. I make at least one every year for a client. Its popular with guys who like the 12 fret idea, but dont want to sacrifice 2 frets. 13 fits the bill.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

13 fretter, eh? That`s also something to consider. I`m still in the planning stages of this one. I like the Krylon idea, as I`ve used it before on other projects.
Thanks, gang.

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

13 frets sounds like a great idea! its just a little compromise!! specially if you make a small body guitar! You can make a regular 12 fret guitar and call this an "upgrade"

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I hate using solid colours on wood, especially acoustics .. heck we picked the wood for what it looked like, why then cover it up. I only ever use solid black on a Laskin armrest/ribrest to make it match a really dark or ebony binding scheme. I would go 12 or 13 fret for sure.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

[QUOTE=TonyKarol] ...heck we picked the wood for what it looked like, why then cover it up.[/QUOTE]
Uh, Tony, did you look at the picture?

hey, where DID I put my glasses ....

OK, OK, so why did you (we) buy it in the first place ???? But seriously, if the rest aint THAT bad, just get rid of the knot and move on. There are worse out there that someone loves to death. Some folks care only about tone, and not a hoot what it looks like. Put a couple Black Death stickers (Johnny Fever lives) on her, and rip.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"