Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Dec 12, 2024 9:21 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:03 pm 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13417
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
My Facebook friends know that I run a regular column a couple times a week were I post pics of and mention things about guitars that I work on that are interesting for one reason or another.

Of course my Facebook page is also filled with rants and raves, politics and then you learn that my language in real life makes Rahm Emanuel sound like Mother Teresa because I swear more than he did and does. :)

So.... just this once I'm using my gulag inspired thread title here (with attribution to Alex) on the OLF to mention two cool things that happened to me today. Some of you know that I work nights now going in around midnight at times because it's safer for me and my family and I kind of like it better too. I have zero contact with anyone beyond that poor dead guy that I found in the elevator a couple of months ago in the parking structure.....

I tend to do 4 - 6 guitars a night and then I go home, eat, watch the news, get pissed off and then go to sleep. Ain't life great.

So for the important things.

1). A huge thanks to the Brad here on the OLF for making me this logo for my Marshall clone. A huge thanks to JF too for the inspiration, idea and his advice too. Thanks guys I am thrilled. I received two of these today and it's perfect.

Was discussing with Dave Collins what glue to use or if I want to use little, white screws. He's thinking hot glue and I'm thinking that he could pull that off but I'm too messy with stuff that can get messy. So the jury is still out on how to attach the logo and if anyone here has any ideas please let me know. I am considering model airplane glue too, the real stuff not that wussy, fumeless imposter. I have some of the real stuff here.

2). I worked on 4 this morning and one of them is this Martin electric. I knew that Martin made some electrics back in the day but I had never seen one or worked on one before. It's pretty cool with coil taps and a nice design and shape. I specifically love the headstock shape too, pretty original as well but g*bson likely wanted to sue anyway since they think they invented the guitar....

Pardon my feet in the shots I work quickly and I am on a mission at work so no time to properly frame iPhone shots. I could have cropped out my foot but that would have been self defeatist. :)

So thanks again Brad this is fantastic and I will endeavor to do no harm attaching it to my Marshall clone.

Now I can do my windmills to my Leonard Cohen making me a half wit with a half stack. :)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



These users thanked the author Hesh for the post (total 3): Pmaj7 (Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:34 pm) • bcombs510 (Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:53 pm) • Chris Pile (Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:41 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:19 pm 
Online
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 pm
Posts: 400
First name: Pierre
Last Name: Castonguay
City: Québec, Qc
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Hello Hesh, nice looking electric you've got there. I've always wondered how they fare, are they as bad/generic as their reputation makes them? What do you think?

About the logo : I had a few Torvisse examples 3D printed for me by a friend for the guitar cases and ended up not using them because the texture of the filament used showed up too much to look like what I had envisioned. See attached pic.

How does yours look like up close? I was told that it is inevitable that the filament should show.

Image


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse

_________________
Pierre Castonguay



These users thanked the author Smylight for the post: Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:52 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:41 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5828
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Ah, yes - Hesh has stumbled upon a rare EM-18. They weren't a big seller for Martin in the late 70's/early 80's and eventually they became available as a KIT in the late 80's. The neck and body were completed, with a nice hard finish. All you had to do was glue the neck in and install whatever hardware you liked.

I bought one of the kits from somewhere, glued the neck on and hung it up in the shop. Didn't take long for a client to bite, either. He wanted gold hardware and Duncan pickups as I remember. He still plays it. I tuned it up for him last year, and he claims it's one of his faves. This is a guy with a Brian Moore, a Suhr, a pair of George Benson's, a couple vintage ES-335's in his arsenal, plus some Strats I built him in the 80's.

Here 'tis - pix from last year.
https://i.imgur.com/xyTZMk8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UguYy5V.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1MwY4co.jpg

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:53 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:02 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:14 am
Posts: 1028
Location: Newland, North Carolina
First name: Dave
Last Name: Ball
I had one of the kits too--my son has that guitar now. It's really a nice guitar. Think I paid about $50 for the kit back in the eighties.

Dave



These users thanked the author ballbanjos for the post (total 2): Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:53 am) • Chris Pile (Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:21 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:43 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
Pierre it kind of looks like Ivoroid which I think looks cool or is it the darker lines that you don't like?

The guitar player in my brothers band had an Electric martin. It was natural finish wood like that but I don't believe it was kit.



These users thanked the author jfmckenna for the post: Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:54 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:50 pm 
Online
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 pm
Posts: 400
First name: Pierre
Last Name: Castonguay
City: Québec, Qc
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
jfmckenna wrote:
Pierre it kind of looks like Ivoroid which I think looks cool or is it the darker lines that you don't like?

The guitar player in my brothers band had an Electric martin. It was natural finish wood like that but I don't believe it was kit.

Hey Jim,

The color I like all right, but I don't dig those filament lines at all. It makes the logo look… weeeelll… plasticky. Which it is, of course. What I'm wondering is if it is at all possible to have a 3D printed item have a smooth flat surface.


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse

_________________
Pierre Castonguay



These users thanked the author Smylight for the post: Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:54 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:52 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am
Posts: 3613
First name: Brad
Last Name: Combs
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Smylight wrote:
About the logo : I had a few Torvisse examples 3D printed for me by a friend for the guitar cases and ended up not using them because the texture of the filament used showed up too much to look like what I had envisioned. See attached pic.

How does yours look like up close? I was told that it is inevitable that the filament should show.


Pierre, for the name plates for John and Hesh I cut them on the CNC. John’s is out of HDPE and Hesh’s is out of PVC so the surface is flat. I see what you mean about the 3D printed one, if I zoom in on it.

I cut the HDPE plate with a 30 degree engraving bit which gave it a bit of a chamfer. The PVC one was cut with a 1/32” O flute bit. Hope that helps. Here’s a close up of the PVC. That’s about as close as I can get and still be somewhat in focus :)

Image

Brad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars



These users thanked the author bcombs510 for the post (total 2): Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:55 am) • Pmaj7 (Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:37 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:03 pm 
Online
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 pm
Posts: 400
First name: Pierre
Last Name: Castonguay
City: Québec, Qc
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
bcombs510 wrote:
Smylight wrote:
About the logo : I had a few Torvisse examples 3D printed for me by a friend for the guitar cases and ended up not using them because the texture of the filament used showed up too much to look like what I had envisioned. See attached pic.

How does yours look like up close? I was told that it is inevitable that the filament should show.


Pierre, for the name plates for John and Hesh I cut them on the CNC. John’s is out of HDPE and Hesh’s is out of PVC so the surface is flat. I see what you mean about the 3D printed one, if I zoom in on it.

I cut the HDPE plate with a 30 degree engraving bit which gave it a bit of a chamfer. The PVC one was cut with a 1/32” O flute bit. Hope that helps. Here’s a close up of the PVC. That’s about as close as I can get and still be somewhat in focus :)

Image

Brad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks Brad. Nice work, I'd say.

From what I understand 3D printing isn't the best way to get the kind of results I need. I’m going to try and find a CNC wizard locally who can this kind of work for me. Or maybe I might interest you in printing a dozen name plates for me? PM me!


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse

_________________
Pierre Castonguay



These users thanked the author Smylight for the post (total 2): Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:56 am) • bcombs510 (Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:52 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:29 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 3264
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
To attach the logo, I suggest small finishing nails because gluing plastic is problematic. The finish nails wouldn't be very visible and you could even put a drop of white paint on the nailhead after installation.



These users thanked the author Barry Daniels for the post (total 2): Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:56 am) • Pmaj7 (Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:37 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:01 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
The finishing nail idea is brilliant. That in combo with clue would probably be perfect.



These users thanked the author jfmckenna for the post (total 2): Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:58 am) • Barry Daniels (Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:57 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:49 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
If you want to avoid nails or screws you can use 100% silicone caulk. In situations where we needed to glue trim or Corian backsplashes to walls we would use silicone caulk in combination with hot melt glue. The hot melt provided the initial stick (which eventually will fail) and the silicone provided the permanent bond. About the only way to remove the siliconed item after it has set is to use a guitar string or other fine wire and "saw" through the silicone - it's pretty much solvent proof.



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post (total 3): Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:01 am) • Pmaj7 (Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:38 pm) • bcombs510 (Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:54 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:58 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13417
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Barry Daniels wrote:
To attach the logo, I suggest small finishing nails because gluing plastic is problematic. The finish nails wouldn't be very visible and you could even put a drop of white paint on the nailhead after installation.


Thanks Barry I'm liking this idea the best. On another forum when searching on how to glue on a Marshall logo I learned that the Marshall logos have pins molded into the back that register and press fit into holes in the front of the amp. So finishing nails is a similar approach. I think I've seen white finishing nails too. Thanks, good idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:58 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13417
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
jfmckenna wrote:
The finishing nail idea is brilliant. That in combo with clue would probably be perfect.


Yeah maybe both sounds good to me too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:00 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13417
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
jfmckenna wrote:
The finishing nail idea is brilliant. That in combo with clue would probably be perfect.


Could drill the logo for the nails for a snug fit and then use the nails through the logo to mark position. Drill the front for the nails and trial fit. If all goes right add glue and use nails for positioning and mechanical attachment too. Then touch up nail heads as Barry suggest. Cool.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:03 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13417
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Clay S. wrote:
If you want to avoid nails or screws you can use 100% silicone caulk. In situations where we needed to glue trim or Corian backsplashes to walls we would use silicone caulk in combination with hot melt glue. The hot melt provided the initial stick (which eventually will fail) and the silicone provided the permanent bond. About the only way to remove the siliconed item after it has set is to use a guitar string or other fine wire and "saw" through the silicone - it's pretty much solvent proof.


I like this idea too and thanks Clay. What concerns me is squeeze out and how difficult it would be to clean up with a complex shaped logo like this one. I used to work for GE so I have silicone calk in my blood :)

Thanks Clay.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:11 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5505
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Pop rivets?

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.



These users thanked the author Colin North for the post: Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:34 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:06 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 1067
First name: Rob
Last Name: McDougall
City: Cochrane
State: Alberta
Just a thought - heavy-duty double sided tape?



These users thanked the author Robbie_McD for the post: Hesh (Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:48 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:21 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1707
—- waves from the peanut gallery.
Hey
What about a solid strip of something behind the mesh. Then use a few indexing pins of some sort in the logo to pop into the strip and glue just those points in?
… recedes back into the gallery


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



These users thanked the author SnowManSnow for the post (total 2): Smylight (Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:16 am) • Hesh (Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:40 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:48 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13417
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
The logo has to be attached where there is Tolex on the upper panel of the front.

So just like with Lutherie work I'm going to pull the back panel and expose the folded over Tolex where it does not show, inside of the back. Then I'll try various glues on both the Tolex and the logo. test gluing if you will.

On my list of glues to try is RTV (GE of course since I used to work there), Hot glue, thick CA, thick CA with accelerator (wipe the surface with accelerator first for immediate grab is how I install K&K transducers blind on bridge plates) and any other glues that we can think of between now and then such as contact cement which is used on fiberglass circuit boards so maybe.

Ordered the 4 X 12" Marshall 1960's TV cab from Musician's Friend yesterday so that's on the way from Kansas City!

Thanks everyone for the ideas this is still tricky and I'll report back what I learn if anything.



These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: bcombs510 (Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:01 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:17 am 
Online
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 pm
Posts: 400
First name: Pierre
Last Name: Castonguay
City: Québec, Qc
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
I'm anxiously waiting for your findings about the glues …


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse

_________________
Pierre Castonguay



These users thanked the author Smylight for the post: Hesh (Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:15 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:28 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Late to the game, but won't Fish Glue stick to pretty much anything? Never tried it on plastic or Tolex, but would be easy to control squeeze out with a damp cloth or wet Q-Tip. I know it works on glass. Heat from the amp might be a problem though.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars



These users thanked the author WaddyThomson for the post: Hesh (Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:05 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], doncaparker and 65 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com