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Hey folks,

I’m considering getting something like the workstation that Doug Proper is promoting. He partnered with Total Vise to make a luthier workstation - https://www.totalvise.com/proper-s-guit ... on-package

The reason I’m considering this is to save my back. Like a lot of folks, I have chronic low back pain (spondylolisthesis in my case) and there are a few jobs that are just murder on my back.

This kind of system might help because it brings the work up higher and enables doing jobs in a standing position. It’s pricey, but I’m sure worth it.

In addition to clamping a full instrument like shown I would want to be able to clamp a radius work board to carve braces while standing.

Anyone care to share other back saving techniques or experience with similar setups like this?

Brad


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Yes I have thought about getting something like that vice also.
One suggestion I have is to actually carve the brace fully before it’s put on. That’s how I do mine
I actually do most of it on a sander maybe touch it up a little once it’s glued on the guitar.


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I haven't used a device like that, but in terms of bracing, I agree that doing most of the work before gluing is very handy. I have them very close in terms of the scalloping when I glue them on and only touch up and taper them after they come out of the go deck. I remember Greenfield using a stand-alone back/top holder that mounted on a pole that was chest high. I would probably do that if I had the space, or motivation.

Brad—

I think a lot of the functionality of the Proper/Howards vise setup comes from the pedestal. Are you OK with bolting a pedestal to your floor, or working out a very stout mobile base? I think that’s important. The obvious alternative is an Erlewine shop stand from Stew Mac, coupled with various vises and homemade workholders. Consider a Wilton Pow-R-Arm for flexible positioning. But the Proper/Howards stuff looks really good, and could turn out to be an overall cost savings, compared to the other stuff I have mentioned. I see introductory pricing. You might want to jump on that.

I made this little bench that I can clamp to the top of my bench so I'm not stooping down for a lot of task. It's not quite finished, I still need to add a vise.
seems to help for the things I've used it for.

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http://jameswattsguitars.com

I think that, for Brad's specific need (and really, we would all benefit from this), both elevation and tilt are important. So, I can see the attraction to the Proper/Howards gear. I think you can get those two things (elevation and tilt) with an Erlewine stand, an angle vise, and some homemade work holders. The Proper/Howards stuff might work better or be less expensive as an overall package. But if you already owned the StewMac stuff, I think you could get a lot of the same benefits.

I've ordered the Proper workstation package, though holding off on the pedestal for the time being. Right after I ordered I got an email that due to demand, lead time is about three weeks to shipment.

I also built a bench for my bench based on one from a Fine Woodworking article. I really like it.

I have had several of the Howard's Total Vise pieces for the past year or so, and I really like them a lot. I have all of my vises (except for my built in bench vises) mounted to fit in the Howard's mount. I have one mount set up on my Erlewine shop stand--I use this instead of getting a Howard's pedestal since I already had it. The two can co-exist. At any rate, the Proper's workstation looks interesting.

Dave

Hi Brad, this is kind of related. I have back pain and it really helps me to stand on padding. I would try this out it rocks.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08D5 ... UTF8&psc=1

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For anti-fatigue floor mats, my wife and I just started test driving some Hog Heaven II modular mats:

https://www.commercialmatsandrubber.com ... dular-tile

So far, we are impressed. Pricey, but heavy duty and durable, and very comfortable.

I hate it and it breaks all the rules that we had for our vices.

For example it has LOTS of elements of sharp metal and it's sticking up in the middle of the bench. Someone like me who actually works for a living repairing many people's guitars in a given day would bump a guitar into some part of this thing and damage the instrument. This alone is a non-starter and I need go no further. Any exposed metal part that could be bumped needs padding and lots of it.

A well designed bench and leg vice and I can do everything this thing can with very little danger to anything including myself..., very little if any cost, I've had 10,000 guitars and more in my vice and never damaged a single one (the vice that is...). I damaged my first ever instrument earlier this year but the vice had nothing to do with it.

Lastly for great fret work we need the support for the instrument to be solid as a rock. There is no flex in what we use but there will be in this thing.

So I have a bad back too and can relate and I am very comfortable for hours at my bench because we worked hard to get the height right. My home shop is just one inch shorter and my back hurts more when I work as long at home.

Sorry to poo poo here but I'm speaking from the perspective of a busy repair shop that will have a dozen instruments in my vice in a given day. What we use does it all for us and this would not match what we already have and use in any practical way.

We didn't go for Dan E.'s vices and stands either and love what we use and have.

These systems would appear to possess the same set of problems inherent to certain undergarments typically thought to draw significant, albeit prurient interest: while they may indeed keep all the interesting bits highly visible, somewhat accessible, and maintained in optimal relationship to one and other, the amount of time and effort required to get on with the business at hand risks a passing of the moment.

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A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower

This looks a little like overkill for a day-in-day-out work-holder in my shop, and I share Hesh’s trepidation about the sharp edges, but I can see some utility to the extremely flexible positioning when it comes to detailed touchup work - using a fine brush to paint grain lines and the like. Gravity can work against you at times with that stuff if you can’t get the guitar into just the right position. From what I’ve seen of Doug Proper’s work on social media it looks like he does quite a bit of this stuff in his repair business.

It would be an occasional-use tool for me and probably one of those things, much like the Erlewine neck jig, which is not normally necessary but occasionally a job comes along where it turns out to be very useful.

I will say it looks like the price is very reasonable for a piece of specialised small production tooling and for a few hundred bucks I may yet be tempted.

I think I would consider a vacuum holder before I would get one of those.


Steve

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I use a vacuum holder mounted in the Howard's vise mount--full swing and tilt capabilities, and a good solid hold in most (although not all) cases.

Dave

If the OLf ever has "Best 100 All Time Posts" this has to be one of them. Thank You Woodie!!! I'm still laughing!!!

Us too and we have the vac pumps already.

A good vacuum pump is a requirement. I also have one that I got from work (we used it to use to test underwear electronic chambers to be sure they would not leak at depth).

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

In anticipation of some of the folks who know it all here pushing back on my comments I took a bunch of pics of our leg vices this morning. Yep I drove an hour to work at 2:00 AM on Turkey Day and worked most of the night we are so busy.

So if anyone is interested in more leg vice pics I've got em just ask.

PS I used my leg vice on the guitars I did this morning and I never had to get it out, configure it, store it's parts, adjust it's angles, etc, etc, etc. AND try to remember where the tentacles of the dang thing are so I don't gouge a BRW instrument on the thing.....

Busy shops have folks moving fast and doing things sometimes without looking. That's why a vice really benefits from being fixed in the place that you use it so you never make the mistake of not remembering that it's there.

I earned more than enough to buy one of these just this morning alone and I don't want one. Have to pay for my new eye and getting a new lens in my left eye in a couple of weeks. Seeing is important LOL

A lot of underwear discussion this AM for some reason, cool

Just explored other products from this vice maker and they do gun vices too. Cool after I gouge a $25K 50's BRW Martin I can use it to hold my gun and shoot myself....

Kidding of course, I would prefer to shoot the vice. But the stupid thing would likely create a ricochet. My leg vice absorbs rounds and does better with this too.

Sometimes I go too far....

Actually, the above is the thing that goes too far: Painting those who dare to disagree with you as being insufferable know-it-alls.

I don’t own any Howards products and probably won’t buy any, but both Dan Erlewine and Robbie O’Brien are saying good things about them, so maybe we can all allow for the possibility of knowledgeable people disagreeing and having subjective preferences about how they work.

I agree with Hesh - a lot of sharp edges! The price for the "package" doesn't seen too unreasonable, but If I were to want something similar I think I would mod my old Samson tripod (like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295361597254?h ... R4DNq6WVYQ ) rather than bolt something to the floor in my small shop. I would probably make the guitar jig out of spruce with rounded edges.
I have an old wooden leg vise and a bench I can sit at, an old claw foot piano stool that I can raise or lower, and a wooden box I can either stand on or place on the bench to raise myself or raise the work depending on the task. I also have benches I can only stand at and for them having cushioned standing mats helps.
Like a lot of guitar bodgers, I tend to make, rather than buy, but unlike many I don't put a lot of care into making jigs - at least not the first few iterations. I always see improvements I can make on the "next one" (even if I continue to use the "last one").
If I was a busy repair shop and thought that tool would make me money, I would buy it, but if I was in this for the money I would do something else.

But he actually works for a living, Don.

If what you mean to say is that Hesh works for a living repairing guitars, yes, that’s true. And Doug Proper does, too. And Dan Erlewine used to. And Robbie O’Brien does too, in part. I’m ignoring hobbyists when I mention knowledgeable people who disagree; I’m specifically referring to the people I’ve named. They disagree about the usefulness of these specific tools. So, I don’t think anyone has a monopoly on wisdom regarding this topic. I personally have none, so I enjoy hearing from people who have some, even if they disagree.