Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:10 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:14 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:56 pm
Posts: 491
First name: Aaron
Last Name: Hix
City: Chatsworth
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30705
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I have a project that requires some bleached or unbleached bone dowels 3/16" or 1/4" diameter should work.. I can't find a source anywhere..
Much appreciated!

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:32 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3927
Location: United States
I've always just made such things as needed. You can plane bone with a hand plane; the best I've found for the purpose is a low-end Stanley low angle block plane sharpened to a very short (high angle) bevel. Harder irons tend to chip on the bone, and actually get dull quicker, in my experience.

To make a rod you start with a piece with a square cross section and remove the corners. A block of wood with a 90 degree grove in it, and a stop block at one end, holds the square bone at the right angle to plane off the corner. You start my main it octagonal, and keep removing corners until you run out.

A scratch beader can be used to refine the rounding over. File a semicircular bite with the right radius out of the edge of a scraper. The burr from filing acts as a cutting edge.

If you need it to be really round you can chuck the rod in a drill, and use sandpaper to remove material while it's spinning.

I make small bone rods this way all the time to use for fret marker dots.



These users thanked the author Alan Carruth for the post: A.Hix (Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:46 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:26 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:45 pm
Posts: 1336
Location: Calgary, Canada
Status: Amateur
Quite easy if you have access to a lathe and some canoe bones.



These users thanked the author Darrel Friesen for the post: A.Hix (Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:46 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:34 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1577
Location: United States
I see dental tools to core drill and harvest bone. These are probably very expensive. However, there are inexpensive coring devices to make your own wooden dowels that should work.



These users thanked the author wbergman for the post: A.Hix (Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:46 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:44 am 
Online
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5492
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Bone knitting needles on ebay.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.



These users thanked the author Colin North for the post (total 2): A.Hix (Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:46 pm) • Skarsaune (Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:32 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:34 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1577
Location: United States
Curious what your project is???


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:58 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:12 am
Posts: 712
Location: United States
How long do you need them to be and how many?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:06 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:56 pm
Posts: 491
First name: Aaron
Last Name: Hix
City: Chatsworth
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30705
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
wbergman wrote:
Curious what your project is???


I am building a couple experimental guitars with bridges that have individual bone pedestals under the strings instead of the traditional saddle.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:08 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:56 pm
Posts: 491
First name: Aaron
Last Name: Hix
City: Chatsworth
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30705
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
guitarjtb wrote:
How long do you need them to be and how many?


The length really doesn't matter, as I am cutting them to less than 1/2" long. I need as few as what adds up to 12" to 16".

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:14 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:56 pm
Posts: 491
First name: Aaron
Last Name: Hix
City: Chatsworth
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30705
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Alan Carruth wrote:
I've always just made such things as needed. You can plane bone with a hand plane; the best I've found for the purpose is a low-end Stanley low angle block plane sharpened to a very short (high angle) bevel. Harder irons tend to chip on the bone, and actually get dull quicker, in my experience.

To make a rod you start with a piece with a square cross section and remove the corners. A block of wood with a 90 degree grove in it, and a stop block at one end, holds the square bone at the right angle to plane off the corner. You start my main it octagonal, and keep removing corners until you run out.

A scratch beader can be used to refine the rounding over. File a semicircular bite with the right radius out of the edge of a scraper. The burr from filing acts as a cutting edge.

If you need it to be really round you can chuck the rod in a drill, and use sandpaper to remove material while it's spinning.

I make small bone rods this way all the time to use for fret marker dots.


Thanks, Alan. This is seemingly the way I will end up doing this. The stuff I have found isn't precise enough for my use. I need the dowels to be precise enough to fit tightly in a drilled hole.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies



These users thanked the author A.Hix for the post: CraigG (Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:44 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:27 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:56 pm
Posts: 491
First name: Aaron
Last Name: Hix
City: Chatsworth
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30705
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I may end up having to use brass rods, I'd just rather use bone if possible.

_________________
Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:40 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 721
First name: Bob
Last Name: Gramann
City: Fredericksburg
State: VA
Zip/Postal Code: 22408
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
This might be what you need: https://balsambanjoworks.com/product/5th-string-pip/ or https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-a ... tring-nut/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:20 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7375
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
I would think a high-quality plug cutter (Veritas or similar) would give you what you want. The plugs are tapered at one end but I wouldn’t think that would be a problem.


Steve

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:38 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
SteveSmith wrote:
I would think a high-quality plug cutter (Veritas or similar) would give you what you want. The plugs are tapered at one end but I wouldn’t think that would be a problem.


Steve


+1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:05 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1577
Location: United States
I saw a classical guitar about 40 years ago with individual brass pins as you describe. The builder was actually a dentist by profession.

I have also seen a classical guitar (played by Segovia's wife) where the regular bridge saddle was simply cut into six individual tabs. Thus, there was no change whatsoever in the bridge design.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 6:46 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:12 am
Posts: 712
Location: United States
PM sent


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:57 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:14 am
Posts: 1028
Location: Newland, North Carolina
First name: Dave
Last Name: Ball
I've made bone banjo fifth string nuts in the past (pips) by chucking up a square piece of bone with the corners knocked off in a drill press chuck and cutting with a sharp file. After I got a small lathe, I started doing this operation in a lathe chuck with a small indexed carbide cutter. In every case, cutting the bone stinks like crazy!

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:00 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3927
Location: United States
While you're at it, cut threads on the bone posts, and tap the holes in the bridge. This would make it easy to adjust the action height. Or you could just start with brass machine screws. If the top of the post is rounded over, and you use threads with .5mm pitch, you can adjust the height in .25mm increments with ahalf turn of the screw, for a .125mm action adjustment at the 12th fret.



These users thanked the author Alan Carruth for the post: ballbanjos (Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:35 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:57 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:17 am
Posts: 1286
First name: John
Last Name: Arnold
City: Newport
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37821
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
For these projects, I use a Taig hobby lathe.
Banjo pips are normally around 1/8" and IMHO are too small for guitar post saddles.

_________________
John


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 6:01 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:45 pm
Posts: 1336
Location: Calgary, Canada
Status: Amateur
John Arnold wrote:
For these projects, I use a Taig hobby lathe.
Banjo pips are normally around 1/8" and IMHO are too small for guitar post saddles.

I would do the same John as I have a Taig as well. I've used the metal working accessories for making bone bridge pins. Bone dowels would be pretty easy using the cross slide I would think.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bone Dowel Source?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:15 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7375
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Darrel Friesen wrote:
John Arnold wrote:
For these projects, I use a Taig hobby lathe.
Banjo pips are normally around 1/8" and IMHO are too small for guitar post saddles.

I would do the same John as I have a Taig as well. I've used the metal working accessories for making bone bridge pins. Bone dowels would be pretty easy using the cross slide I would think.


I have a Sherline lathe that I use for those types of things as well but assumed the OP would not ask the question if they already had a lathe.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Colin North and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com