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This arrived from Stewmac yesterday.
Alright, I wasn't expecting a great top, it's only A grade Englemann, but it's advertised as small top for classical, 000, and parlor size guitars.
20% of one half is missing, and the bookmatch has a branch running though it!
Half template in second pic is for an OM.
I'll see if I get a rely to my query.....

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I wouldn’t accept it.

I’ve received several AA tops from SM lately, results are mixed. One has a corner broken off and the grain is terrible - it’s going back.


Steve

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

That's a pretty poor piece of wood but it looks like you can get your top out of it. Nothing left over for the back strip though.

On another note, what's with the stupid grading A AA AAA AAA... There's nothing A about those boards. Maybe a D.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

There's an open split in the knot shadow top RH shoulder, maybe if I fill it with Bondo?..........
Mandolin top at best

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

That is packing material grade. You can build a fine guitar out of packing material if you so desire, but you shouldn't have to pay money for it.

What bothers me is that some person looked at this and thought it was OK to put in a box and send to a customer. I had a bad experience once with mandolin wedges. They were so warped they were useless for carving an F mandolin. They wanted me to ship it back but I convinced them it was firewood and a waste of time and money to send it back. They just sent me a new piece. That was my only bad experience with SM and that was 20 years ago.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

And now we know why I haven't ordered from StewMac in years.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Makes me wonder whether those were sacrificial plates used to protect the bundles during shipping? I personally wouldn’t have even stooped to using those for that purpose.

Here is what Pacific Rim sent as sacrificial cover plates on my last order. Check out the silking in that junk!

Cheers, M

send it back that is not quality

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I'm on it John

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Michael, is that dunnage big enough to use for a soundboard? In appearance,if that trademark can be put on the inside surface, in appearance that's a lovely top.

About the S-M sending out junk, shame on them.

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Peter Havriluk

I tried to find a grading chart on SM website. I found this:


Use our grading system to choose your soundboard:

Color: Higher grade soundboards have more consistent color (color affects the instrument's appearance only, not its tone).

Grain straightness: Higher soundboard grades have straighter, tighter, and more uniform grain. While closely spaced grain has been traditionally favored, luthiers have found that wider grain can produce very good tone.

Quartersawn grain: The higher the grade, the more closely quartersawn the wood. Perfectly quartered wood is more dimensionally stable and moves proportionally with changing temperature and humidity environments. This helps to ensure structural integrity and resists cracking better than other types of cuts.

Grain run-out: Our soundboards are sawn from split billets to reduce the amount of grain "run-out," caused by a twist in the tree. By splitting the log, the twist is followed when sawing. Higher grade soundboards have less run-out.

Origin and drying: Our soundboards (unless otherwise noted) are from western North America, and have been kiln-dried and stored in a climate controlled environment.


Is there a better description of their grades somewhere? This is basically just saying higher is better. Well .

Not saying that set should have been shipped to the customer for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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It's been awhile since I've bought any tops (a dozen+ years) but I did buy quite a few (200+) "A" grade. None of them looked quite as bad as that top, but a - few - of them may be as bad structurally - terrible runout. I have also had some "AAA" tops that also had terrible runout but cosmetically looked great.
A grade tops are usually down graded because of several factors, some of which can be worked around and some you have to accept. Down grades include "color" (dark banding), uneven width grain lines, wavy grain lines, off quarter wood, knot shadow, staining, etc. Surprisingly "runout" is often not part of the equation.
With Engelmann tops I like to measure runout on both edges of the plate. because they come from smaller trees and sometimes have spiral twist the runout can vary wildly (or not). I like to match up the edges with the least runout. With that top you have no choice - you are stuck with using the "intact edge".
When I bought "A" grade tops I bought in quantity at a low price per top so I could accept a few "duds". I liked to buy larger tops to build smaller instruments, and cut around the defects whenever possible. Back then there was little demand for low grade tops so sawyers wanted to get them out of their warehouse.
It's possible you could get a parlor or classical guitar out of that top. A triple O might be pushing it - I like to have more distance from the edge of the plate to the outline of the guitar top.
Typically this is what an "A" grade top looked like (random tops off the pile):

Tonewood gradings and descriptions are hard to rely on. I have had a few different OLF sponsors send me top wood that, in my view, did not meet the descriptions provided by those sponsors. And these are otherwise really good sponsors. These days, I either pick top wood out in person (rare opportunities), rely on actual photos of the pieces of wood, or take a big risk. I sometimes do OK taking that risk, but I take it less and less as time goes by, and either go in person or insist on good photos.

StewMac has this weird "hole" in its Woodstax section, the section that provides actual photos of the set you are buying. There are no flat-top acoustic tops in Woodstax. You can buy flat-top tops from StewMac, but you buy them sight unseen. If I knew they were going to pick a good set, I would trust them to do so, but that's not a given. This makes me way less interested in buying tops from StewMac. I wish they understood that.

Yup, Dread size top. One may run into a pitch pocket - great student top…

The above tops were "skip" planed so there is still some roughness on the surface. But they do show the typical downgrades for color, uneven grain, wavy grain, knot shadow, etc. Some can be cut out of the top (edges and soundhole) or buried (under the fretboard extension or rosette) or hidden under finish (color or stain defects) and some just have to be accepted. Bad runout can kill a top whether it's "A" grade or "AAA" grade, but most don't grade for that!

Seriously, the spruce Rivolta uses as packing material when I receive orders from them is of a substantially higher quality.

Where I come from, we call that "pissing away goodwill".

I'm sure that top just happened to "slip through the cracks" and Stew Mac will make it right as they usually do. If the rough edge would have been trimmed off the top may not have looked quite so bad, and if it didn't have an open split it might be possible to get a small classical or parlor guitar out of that top, assuming the runout is acceptable. But then, there are usually plenty of nicer tops for smaller guitars available at reasonable prices.
The person I used to buy Engelmann from quit selling retail and moved that part of the business to another seller. Interestingly, that seller started "grading" the tops by placing various templates on the top, drawing around it to exclude the defects, and selling the tops as a higher grade. They were "upgrading" the tops by designating them for a specific use.
As old growth forests get turned into 2X4's, good soundboard material is going to be the next "unobtanium". This years packing material might be next years "AAA" grade.

"As old growth forests get turned into 2X4's"

Are they really still doing this? That's very sad if it's true but I've never seen a 2x4 with tight grain.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

Hope SM makes it right.

Just thought I’d take the opportunity to say the last thirty or so tops I’ve purchased were from forum sponsor Alaska Specialty Woods and they exceeded my expectations in every regard. Brent has sent me “AAA” tops that in my experience would be sold as “AAAA” by other vendors, and “AA” tops with the only flaws right on the outside edge of the board which meant they could be used as extremely high-grade 0 or 00 tops.

Just got an email, looks like a result
"Hi Colin,

Thank you for the photos, and we apologize for this inconvenience. We will send a replacement soundboard and have it checked before shipment. We will also mark the package as "duty-free replacement parts" to try and ensure that you will not need to pay any additional fees to receive the package.

We appreciate your business, and again we are sorry for any inconvenience. If you have any other questions please feel free to contact us again.

Best regards,

Josh W.
Customer Support"

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I was pretty sure they'd make it right for you.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

I was pretty sure they would, SM's reputation holds up pretty well.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Speaking of acceptable grade tops. I was just looking through Alaska Specialties stock and saw the orphaned boards. Seems like a great way to get high grade boards for next to nothing if your not fussy about book matching in your early guitars. I'm considering it.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!