Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:06 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:09 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:44 pm
Posts: 58
I have applied shellac as a sealer on an archtop guitar. I'm going to wait a week for drying to apply lacquer.

Here we have temperatures of about 32º C and a relative humidity of around 40% now.

Do you think that drying time is enough?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:18 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4903
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
You can do as little as 30 min
if you use the flake shellac if you used can shellac your good to go in an hour
a week is too redundant.

Alcohol is the solvent and dries off fast

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it



These users thanked the author bluescreek for the post: Pmaj7 (Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:51 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:18 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7375
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
I wait overnight.


Steve

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:47 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:44 pm
Posts: 58
Thank you for your replies! I never aplied before lacquer over shellac, hence my doubt because lacquer has a completely different composition.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:55 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
Most lacquers contain some form of alcohol in addition to the other solvents used, so may dissolve some of the shellac. If shellac is used as a sealer or barrier coat it should be applied thinly and allowed to dry. If lacquer is applied over an existing (heavy) shellac finish it can dissolve the shellac and cause the finish to craze as the lacquer and shellac "dry" at different rates.
Shellac when it gets old will not dry, so if your shellac isn't dry to the touch within an hour when applied thinly, it is probably too old and should not be used.
A thin coat of shellac is often used as a barrier coat to seal oily woods to allow other finishes to be applied over top.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:47 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:16 am
Posts: 485
First name: Brian
City: U.P.
State: Michigan
Focus: Build
What Clay said, and you are using dewaxed shellac right?

I usually test my shellac before applying it to an instrument by putting a spot of some on a piece of glass and if it is hard to the fingernail in 24 hrs I use it. If not, I use it on other projects like a door or something.

I can't remember if that test was for shellac or hide glue but I use it for both. Anyone else heard of doing that?

_________________
Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:40 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 721
First name: Bob
Last Name: Gramann
City: Fredericksburg
State: VA
Zip/Postal Code: 22408
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
A one pound cut of shellac seems to dry almost instantly after it is padded on. It can be followed in a few minutes by another coat. A two pound cut seems to stay soft for hours.



These users thanked the author bobgramann for the post (total 2): bcombs510 (Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:24 am) • doncaparker (Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:56 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:57 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 3070
First name: Don
Last Name: Parker
City: Charleston
State: West Virginia
Zip/Postal Code: 25314
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
What Bob said, times two.



These users thanked the author doncaparker for the post: bcombs510 (Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:24 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:24 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am
Posts: 3594
First name: Brad
Last Name: Combs
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
And then add the acetone to the mix so you can literally watch it dry instantly. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars



These users thanked the author bcombs510 for the post: doncaparker (Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:25 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:17 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4903
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
First off not all alcohol is the same . I never use canned shellac and I will not use denatured as there are chemicals in it we don't need. I only use EverClear and I make a 2 lb cut. This will dry in a short amount of time

So
Seal
Fill
Seal
finish coats.

I also grind my flakes in a coffee mill so they are dust for a better desolve and mix.

You only need a coat after all we are sealing.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:46 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:19 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Sugar Land, TX
First name: Ed
Last Name: Haney
City: Sugar Land (Houston)
State: Texas
Zip/Postal Code: 77479
Country: USA
Focus: Build
bluescreek wrote:
First off not all alcohol is the same . I never use canned shellac and I will not use denatured as there are chemicals in it we don't need. I only use EverClear and I make a 2 lb cut. This will dry in a short amount of time

So
Seal
Fill
Seal
finish coats.

I also grind my flakes in a coffee mill so they are dust for a better desolve and mix.

You only need a coat after all we are sealing.


John,
How are you applying the seal coats of shellac? Spray, brush, pad?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:51 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4903
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I use a paper towel folded and use that as a brush you can use any method , I just find the paper towel cleaner and easy

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it



These users thanked the author bluescreek for the post: Ed Haney (Sun Oct 22, 2023 3:50 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:42 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:44 pm
Posts: 58
Clay S. wrote:
Most lacquers contain some form of alcohol in addition to the other solvents used, so may dissolve some of the shellac. If shellac is used as a sealer or barrier coat it should be applied thinly and allowed to dry. If lacquer is applied over an existing (heavy) shellac finish it can dissolve the shellac and cause the finish to craze as the lacquer and shellac "dry" at different rates.
Shellac when it gets old will not dry, so if your shellac isn't dry to the touch within an hour when applied thinly, it is probably too old and should not be used.
A thin coat of shellac is often used as a barrier coat to seal oily woods to allow other finishes to be applied over top.

Thank you very much. I’m using new shellac from the can.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:45 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:44 pm
Posts: 58
bluescreek wrote:
First off not all alcohol is the same . I never use canned shellac and I will not use denatured as there are chemicals in it we don't need. I only use EverClear and I make a 2 lb cut. This will dry in a short amount of time

So
Seal
Fill
Seal
finish coats.

I also grind my flakes in a coffee mill so they are dust for a better desolve and mix.

You only need a coat after all we are sealing.

Thank you very much for your informative reply!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:23 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:16 am
Posts: 485
First name: Brian
City: U.P.
State: Michigan
Focus: Build
Make sure your shellac from a can is DEWAXED shellac!

_________________
Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:24 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:44 pm
Posts: 58
rbuddy wrote:
Make sure your shellac from a can is DEWAXED shellac!

Thank you. The guitar is already finished and the result is very good. Lacquer on dewaxed shellac.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 41 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com