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Are they really any better than the $20 piezos I bought but have yet to install? What makes their piezo any better?

One day, I'll buy a set and see for myself.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

I’ve nothing against K&K but there’s a Canadian brand called JBL which is pretty much identical at half price, but even better there’s a Canadian brand called Schatten Designs. The HFN passive is my go to PU, sounds like the actual guitar rather than sounding like a PU, is held in place by very strong two sided tape rather than superglue, so it’s moveable and removeable without fuss, unlike the K&K superglue which make salvage a crapshoot.

I was an initial skeptic but instant convert…

Yes.

I've installed every pick-up out there and hundreds of them. When I received my new Martin recently I selected K&K for my Martin and that was out of all of the possibilities. I'll be putting it in on the first string change.

They are great for a decent guitar that sounds good and is flat picked. A lousy sounding guitar will still sound lousy with pretty much any pup (pick-up).

The new Baggs HiFi are great too but $400 compared to K&K at around $130.

For finger style the Baggs Anthem is still my number one choice and the Anthem is really two pups in one. I recommend the Baggs preamp with an Anthem too but that's optional.

No one has ever brought us nor have we worked on any guitars with JBL and I've seen Schatten less than one out of a hundred pick-up installs that we work on.

So look different strokes for different folks but I really question that any of us would jump through all the hoops we have to build a nice guitar and then go ugly early on the pick-up selecting something at a bargain basement price. I didn't spend hundreds of hours learning to voice a top to get cheap on the pup.

I like em and use them on stage for steel and nylon string. More importantly our sound guys like them too. For the price I'm not real worried about being able to remove them without destroying them, not something I plan on changing. Over the years I've had to repair/replace quite a few active acoustic pickup systems and I really prefer the simplicity of the K&K.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I've used K & K on more than a few archtops and flat tops and love the sound and price. I do have one of their external belt/strap pre-amps for when I play stadiums (bahaha) but really like the sound and absence of a battery. Not sure how they make that happen but it doesn't matter to me.

Absence of a battery is a huge plus too for gigging musicians.

K&K Install Tip: This is from my buddy Link Van Cleave: Loop the cable once inside the box so that you have just enough length in the cable to expose the transducers in the sound hole so you can get a little drop (1/8") of medium CA on them. With the cable looped once and the transducers glued on (we glue our's and found tape unreliable) the cable stays suspended inside the box not touching anything for a very neat and quiet installation.

K&K Install Tip II: I hit the bridge plate with some sand paper to clean it up and make flat gluing surfaces for the transducers. This is a one minute thing and then I wipe the plate down getting sanding dust off. Lastly I spray accelerator on a paper towel and wipe that on the bridge plate. We use quality medium CA with the drop size above and the transducers grab in 3 - 5 seconds.

This is a trick I hit upon a while back and in fact used it earlier today when installing a K&K Twin Spot on the bridge plate of an in-progress mandocello. As you say, the loop means that the cables are suspended between the bridge plate and the tail block and cannot rattle against anything.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

K&K's are my go-to for all the reasons. As a player, I hate batteries.

JJB is another brand, less expensive, that I have used with good success.
But it's not like K&K's are expensive - K&K pure mini is $109 retail about everywhere.

The JJB equivalent is $49.

I use a slightly tapered 1/4" dowel about 16" long when installing pickup jacks in acoustics. Just put the dowel through the hole and stick the jack on it up at the sound hole where it's easy to get to. No problem to turn the jack a full turn to get the loop in it then gently pull the jack through the hole and attach the hardware. Makes it easier for me since I have big hands and getting to the tail block, although not impossible, is a bit of a pain.

+1 on the "I hate batteries".

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I have started using the jig suppled with the Baggs HiFipickup to install the K&K.
It’s wide enough to mount all 3 pickup elements at the same time. I have taken
Hesh’s advice and after cleaning the bridge plate I wipe it with ca accelerator.
Bring able to install all elements in one shot saves s ton of time and the accelerator
allows quick removal of the jig.

Nice and you can move the loop forward or aft and make it tighter or looser to get the right length too. Makes a very nice installation especially in a pristine box with that beautiful work that you've done there J.

I do that too and have a 1/4" dowel that is a tad rounded on the edges for easy insertion in the jack. Did Dave show you how he installs jacks when you were here Steve? He has a YouTube video under his name and our business name and he is very particular about the jack install so that it will not come loose on it's own. You might enjoy that video.

That's a great idea Craig I'll have to recommend that pup to someone so I can keep their jig after I install it

Finally gonna give the Schatten a go -

M

I have several of these jigs Hesh. I’d be happy to send you one. PM me where you would like me to mail it
and I’ll send it out

M,

I hope you like. In a bit I’ll post a snap of a super simple install jig…

I sure did ask Dave a lot of questions not related to the setup class and he was kind enough to answer them all but we didn’t discuss pickup installs. I’ll check out that video.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Just curious if anyone has a K&K on hand to weigh?

I am a dealer for K&K after I installed a few I can say they are indeed a great all around pick up.
I have put them on with a fishman pre amp ( fishman told me they would be too bassy , well no they are just find )
I have used the Mini the Ulta Pure and the trinity
all have been very good.
I also have a few LR Baggs

I tried the china crap, and in my 12 string I will admit it was fine as for the other guitars , the transducers were too large and the
consistency we iffy

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Weighing the pickup is difficult because of the attached wires. One end of the wire is supported by the jack while the other end is supported by the transducers. But, the wire is flexible, so not all of its weight contributes to the soundboard impedance. The transducer and wire by itself is a replacement transducer that I obtained from K&K. Even on that, I don’t think all of the mass is “perceived” by the string vibrations in the top.

I use these exclusively on the guitars I build when a customer wants a pickup. When you compare them to look-alikes, consider the quality of the jack and the connections. A performer on stage doesn’t want clicks or glitches. I, and my customers, will pay a bit more for reliability.

Thanks for that Bob!

Unfortunately the pic size is too small to see what unit of measurement that was. Is it safe to assume OZ?

For reference the Schatten is 0 lb 0.25 ounces, or 7 grams.

Ed,

Is that 7 grams for the transducer?

Thanks, M

Those are grams in the picture. 5.79, 2.40, and 34.40, respectively.

Thanks!

Yes, 7g for the transducer with the wire held in the air…

For some reason I thought the K&K’s came in at 13g…