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I’m debating painting the neck and body separate so I can do a matte on the neck and gloss on the body. Does anyone do this or do you guys normally paint them together?

If by paint you mean the finish topcoat, then yes. I do Osmo on the neck and poly on the bodies. That being said, even if I’m using the same finish on both they are finished before the neck is bolted on and extension glued in place.




Brad


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Same as Brad.

Every time for near 30 years…

I spray them, finish sand them then buff them, separately.

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

Yep. I even do them separately when finishing them in the same material.

Nice.

When sanding the neck, how do you avoid rounding over the edges of the neck where they meet the body?

Sanding blocks and awareness.

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Peter Havriluk

Every one I make.

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Peter Havriluk

I only sand with blocks. I learned that painting cars.

I've been putting the neck back on the body before sanding the end of the neck. I'm terrified that one errant sanding stroke will give me a gap between the neck and body. It seems like there is a lot of opportunity to mess up.

There is, but that’s where skill and practice come into play. I never sand from the joint to the heel cap, but rather always the opposite way, careful to not crest the ridge, if you know what I mean.

Usually there will be finish on the cheeks that would get between the neck and the body, but usually, with careful chisel work and flossing you can get that joint mint.

Doing them separately makes life simpler in so many ways, from buffing to repairability.

Always separately, very light touch at the heel end usually using an shaped eraser at the heel end of the neck.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Every time, as I generally use a M & T neck joint. And, assuming the neck angle and fit are ok, I will floss the end of the neck where it meets the body. I'll use a fine sandpaper such as p320 to remove any laquer excess.

I would bet that no one here finishes the neck and body together. That would create a lot of inside corners that are difficult or impossible to sand and buff evenly.

If a person were worried about rounding over the edges of the heel where it meets up with the body (a reasonable fear), they could temporarily attach the heel to a block of wood slightly larger than the heel, so that files or sandpaper would not easily be capable of such mayhem. Take off the wooden block when done with shaping/sanding. Just an idea. Those edges are definitely places to be careful.

In the Spanish tradition the guitar is made on a solera; essentially it's built around the neck. This facilitates getting the neck angle right, but usually makes it difficult to re-set the angle. And, of course, you have to finish the neck and body together. A person buying a Classical guitar may well reject it if there is no build-up of finish at the base of the neck, and steel string buyers may reject a guitar if there is, since it would imply some difficulty in re-setting the neck.

Thanks for the feedback. I am using a dovetail joint, so I don’t think I can floss the joint. At least, I haven’t had any luck in trying that so far.

I think I’m going to make a female joint to accept the neck and do my same that way.

Thomas, assuming your fit is ok, I don't see any reason you couldn't floss. Just hold the neck and body together loosely enough to insert some sandpaper and use a couple of strokes. All you're trying to do is flatten the points of contact, and it doesn't take much to remove the laquer. Good luck, Mike.

Do you mask off the body where the neck sits or do you just paint it all and glue the neck over the finish?

That question assumes there is glue between the butt end of the heel and the body. I think a lot of people don’t put glue there, even for dovetails. It doesn’t do much to help hold the neck on, and it makes a neck reset more traumatic for the finish in that area. I guess it provides some value in terms of making the neck/body joint look more seamless, but for me, the negatives outweigh that positive. For any of the neck joints I have used, I don’t need or use glue there.

Agreed. The fretboard extension and bridge footprint area of the body are the only things masked so the fretboard extension and bridge can be glued to bare wood. Even then, some folks don’t mask those areas but instead route / scrape / chisel the finish away after the fact.


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Yep, I only mask the fretboard extension and bridge area. Doesn’t matter which type of neck joint I use.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Thanks.

So Hesh here has coined a term in the past called the "SQ" which stands for serviceability quotient. The SQ is higher when an instrument has been better built and built to be serviced into the future. The higher the SQ the more likelihood that the instrument has been built to heirloom quality.

That aside.

I don't know if we are speaking of an acoustic guitar or electric guitar with some cross over anyway. And I didn't read any of the prior posts I have to get ready for some errands.

All acoustic guitars for the most part if they and/or you live long enough will need a neck reset. Even Martin has in the past five years changed their policy on neck resets no longer covering them under warranty as they never should have but did anyway at great expense to them because neck resets are really something that should be considered a part of expected maintenance for any acoustic guitar. 5 - 30 years out it's going to be neck reset time and for a cut-a-way at times even sooner which is another subject....

There were two pro finishers who I used when I was building my prototypes but I sprayed my own with nitro when I went into production. One pro finisher wanted to finish with the neck on and one would only do it with the neck off.

When an instrument is finished with the neck on there is a filet of finish that settles in the neck joint making it hard to buff out and very difficult to reset the neck when neck reset time comes.

That filet has to be scored through with a knife and often will chip and flake making additional finish touch-up required. It's possible to do a neck reset with zero finish touch-up required so in many ways finishing with the neck on makes neck rests perhaps up to twice as time consuming AND that means more expensive too.

It also reduces the SQ of the builder and instrument and may limit what luthier you can get to service the instrument when neck reset time arrives since many of us are not keen to die from spraying toxic finishes for years and years....

Lastly what separates Lutherie from building a bird house is guitars are intended to be serviced in time and that is why techniques and construction assemblies such as a dovetail neck joints were used for over a century. Glues such as HHG were favored because we can reverse them and take things apart and even reactivate the glue years later.

When you finish the instrument with the neck on on an acoustic guitar where a neck reset is expected to be needed someday it goes against the most basic principles of how and why stringed musical instruments were constructed.

Build serviceable instruments and you will never regret it and it ups your SG and the respect that others in the trade will afford you.

Great insight. Thank you. I’m just wrapping up my build on instruments 2-4. I did a dovetail on them and I plan to glue the necks and fretboard extensions with HHG.

I came up with a way to make the dovetail a bolt on, but I’m going to build at least one or two more normal dovetail guitars before I implement it. I can tighten it from the bottom and hide the bolt with a heel cap with a couple of small countersunk screws. I built a prototype out of scrap wood and it works pretty well. I’d like to incorporate it with a bolt on fingerboard as well.

At that point, it’s not much different than a full bolt on, but I’ve got a process down that makes the dovetail simpler for me than a bolt on. I did about 9 necks to make these three guitars. It took me a long time to figure out my process, but the last two (that I got right) only took a few minutes to cut and set.