Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi folks,
I recently tried everypace to find Ivroid. We all know that there are some danger issues related and Stewmac has stopped selling it. I believe someone on this forum recommended Bill James.

http://axinc.net/index.asp?sid=533241111&action=shippingIssu es&m=3

So, I contacted him to order some Ivroid...to make a long story short Bill now charges a $20 HAZ/MAT fee that he said he is charged by UPS. Now don't get me wrong...I BELIEVE HIM! I BELIEVE UPS charges him and he is simply passing along the cost...BUT...I am just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. It sounds absolutely ridiculous! I could see banning it from air transport, but not charging Bill/me/you $20 everytime he ships a customer 2oz of ivroid. Bill says he gets charged, regardless of order size, if I order one binding strip or a hundred. This doesn't seem very AMERICAN to me...or maybe...sadly it does? Anyway, I can't imagine the govt imposing such a fee on all couriers. Anyone know anything about this? I am hoping this is a "UPS only" thing and too bad for them ( I HOPE) we can get another courrier.

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

So what exactly is the "HAZ" in Ivroid anyway?

just take a piece outside and light it with a match. Extremely flammable. I'm thinking it's a great thing to have when you go camping or hiking. Make a great firestarter!

As I recall I think it has a low flash point too....

I used to work in a distributorship that sold, among other things, supplies to glue endless conveyor belts together. The "glue" which is actually a solvent, came in very small vials and we got hit with the Haz/Mat fee irrespective of quantity ordered. As far as who dictates what gets hit with the surtax is anybody's guess.

Regards, Steve

Have you tried ordering ivoroid from GW Muscial?

Last I did, there was no extras involved.....

Strange that I can oder metal acid dyes from California and have then shipped to Ontario...., but not plastic binding, eh?

I was in a really bad mood last night, and I'm not goung to allow that to happen tonight, so I will refrain from commenting on some of the idiotic regulations that we have to put up with.
Just wait 'til they figure out that some guitars have Ivroid binding, and Nitrocellulose lacquer on them. You'll be paying hazmat on the guitar as well.
Dang!! I commented.
AlA Peebels38825.7982407407

Straight from the UPS website:

UPS transports hazardous materials only within and between the 50 United States and Puerto Rico. Hazardous Materials Contract Service is available for customers with a daily pickup account. You, as the shipper, must complete all requirements for the hazardous materials shipment before pickup. Contact your local UPS Business Development Department for qualification and approval information. UPS does not accept hazardous materials shipments at UPS Customer Centers, The UPS Store, Air Letter Centers, Authorized Shipping Outlets, commercial counters, or using Internet shipping. Ground shipments of ORM-D material may be accepted at some locations.

The Hazardous Materials Service handling charge applies to all hazardous materials packages that require a UPS Shipping Paper.


Hazardous Materials Surcharge
– UPS Air Services and UPS 3 Day Select $30.00
– UPS Ground $20.00

BTW, if you check FedEx, they add a $33 charge for Hazmat. I don't think there's any getting around this fee.

And from the DHL website:

HAZMAT Handling Charge
Under some circumstance DHL can carry acceptable quantities of hazardous material. Packages containing hazardous materials will be assessed a $25.00 service fee.

JohnJohn Elshaw38825.8233333333

Oh its very american Dave. On another crazy note, I got an email from verizon today saying that DSL users now get a tax recovery charge. Tax recovery charge to help verizon get back the tax money they pay? When do we get to charge someone to recover our taxes?

I just received some Ivroid last week from Martin...No Problems! No HazMat upcharge...Yet?

Yes can get it from Martin site. Also tortise color like Stew Mac sold

Don't ask don't tell

Al

As far as the stuff being extremely flammable, one of the sysops on MIMF tried burning some small pieces a year or so ago to see if its true. It would barely light up. Paper was way worse. I would imagine once it got going its a different story, very hot and lots of noxious stuff, like most plastics.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Oh, it's highly flammable stuff alright. I've burnt it just to see. What's funny to me is that it's just about the same thing as what ping-pong balls are made of, and as yet I haven't heard that they are considered to a hazardous material.

I have a solution....don't use UPS.........

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=FrankC] Oh its very american Dave. On another crazy note, I got an email from verizon today saying that DSL users now get a tax recovery charge. Tax recovery charge to help verizon get back the tax money they pay? When do we get to charge someone to recover our taxes?[/QUOTE]

Hey don't get me started on this kind of thing. Here in Florida, and I am sure in other States as well, Power/utility companies get to charge the customer back for just about everything except toilet paper( and I might be wrong about that too). Every hurricane that hits, every pipe that breaks, everytime there's a power line down these "businesses" are looking to recover from us folks. Every franchise tax or other governmental tax/imposition...EVERYTHING...I can't take it anymore...Looking for that private, deserted Island to buy and declare sovereignty. Then I'll declare war on the USA.The U.S. gov't will give me assistance to pay all my bills, forgive all debt I owe, and bill everything to "goodwill among nations", I 'll join the United Nations but only to vote against the hand that feeds me. I be as aggressive and anti American as possible so they give me more money. I'll let the drug dealers use my island for a landing strip but only with U.S. CIA approval, and I siphon off billions to my Bahamian/Isle of Man accounts. Life will be bliss...no more sur/extra/anything-taxes!

O.k... back to Verizon...did you get the best part of their note?...you don't have a choice...they are just tagging on that "recovery tax" ( it probably isn't income tax recovery but some sort of recovery/expense/tax they want from you). Choice? Not realy, you probably have a contract that punishes you if you decide to leave and not pay the tax. If you go to the next semi-monopoly, they will charge you even more for worse service...some choice! I always wanted to own a Utility company...

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Mario, Stan, John, Frank, Rich, Don and others...thanks for your reply and help. I'll check out GW see what they have. I wish I could find a plastics manufacturer that sold the stuff by the sheet...but I can't seem to find that either...stuff will be worth more than Ivory soon.

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Robin Griffin has a video (or is it pictures) up on the MIMF about burning this material and it is HIGHLY flamable. It is an entertaining video.... probably dangerous too, but it makes the point.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

From an uneducated viewpoint, I have a qestion. What is the difference in
ABS plastic that StewMac has and the celluloid?

All,
I believe that the charge would be due to the fact, as Terry states above , is its flammability factor. the material in the binding that is of concern is the celluloid. In looking it up in my handy Haz. Material and Substances & Waste Compliance Guide, it falls under the Class 4 shipping category (Flammable Solid). Get this...you can send up to 25kg. by passenger aircraft or passenger rail. But it is forbidden by cargo air or cargo rail in any amount in scrap form.The funny thing is, is that film also has celluloid in it doesn't it? My wife uses a mail developing company all the time. I never have seen any extra charges for that! I think the way around it is to not mention that it is flammable materials in the first place when anybody ships it out. If you claim Haz. you get billed for Haz. because of the extra handling etc.I would call it guitar supplies and leave it at that. LMI is selling ivoroid and tortoise and state that it is a haz. material. They however state that there is no extra charge, but that it must be ground shipped and will take an extra day with their ASAP shipping program.
Mark Laura

What about the uke or guitar that I ship bound in ivoroid/celluloid? It's still just as flammable, isn't it?

Ivoroid and mahagony are a classic ukulele look. I'm going to be paying the bucks and making larger orders to spread the expense.

Re: photographic film...

My understanding is that film is no longer made of celluloid.

As I said...Don't ask, don't tell. It's easier to ask forgivenance than permission.

AlA Peebels38826.5651388889

The issue is that it is a reactive combustible material. It does not require a flame to combust. and may spontaneously combust if it comes into contact with some solids or liquid materials. This is why it is a Hazardous Transport Material. Did you know that magnesium alloy wheels also fall under this regulation magnesium also is a reactive combustible solid?MichaelP38826.672025463

[QUOTE=hoosierukes] My understanding is that film is no longer made of celluloid.[/QUOTE]
Correct...it's now made of ones and zeros.